Beat_Dominator
Well-known member
Full-range Quad killer?
CLX vs Super Summit
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theWB
Well-known member
Talked to the ML rep last month at the Chicago Audio Society January meeting, He told me they expected to have the CLX on the market by the end of the year. He was thinking the retail may be around $10,000.
Start saving your pennies now!!:cheers:
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
That may be why the upped the price of the Summit's to keep the Summit on top and still have room to slot the CLX in just below it...I think that is where the CLS were in the old line up...just below the Prodigy and just above the Odyessy.
Of course by the time you add in a pair of Descenti's, it will be more costly than the Summits. But the promise of monster panels is tempting, indeed!
I doubt they would raise the price of the Summits just to place them in a higher price range over the CLS. That doesn't make much business sense. I suspect they raised the price as a result of increased manufacturing costs, demand and other related factors. It's not in there best interest to raise prices on a whim since it will result in fewer sales.
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Hmmmm...I wonder....
1. Do we really need stereo Descent i's?
2. How much better would 2 subs be over just 1?
3. Do 2 Depth i's perform better than 1 Descent i?
The Summits perform very well on relatively low tube power compared to thier non-powered ML cousins.
4. I wonder what the CLX sensitivity spec will be compared to the Summit?
5. Am I correct to assume that a Sub+CLX setup would not be biwired since you need to go through the sub's crossover and then to the CLX which is a 1 way speaker?
I would consider upgrading to a Sub+CLX setup next year but have to think about how it would impact my existing system.
Since I have a preamp with double outputs I would run the panels full range and run a second set of interconnects to the sub. This has ALWAYS led to better sound IN MY SYSTEM.
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Maybe that was not the REASON for the price increase but it does give some wiggle room for the CLX to get in there at a price point similar to where the CLS was in relation to the Prodigy...
If the CLX ever sees the light of day is still conjecture. If you look at it objectively, you will realize that it will be nothing more than a two piece Summit. It will may or may not have a specific roll off for the sub and a wider panel other than that there is no other voodoo involved.
At this point, they are still playing with it trying to make an enough of an improvement over the CLS's. From what I have heard, no earth shaking differences yet and no "great" improvement over the CLS's. I am sure the panel will be a bit better but for those of us who already have CLS's I would not invest in the CLX because it is new or "paired" with a sub which most of us CLS owners are doing already. It will not be that much of an improvement.
As far as the Decent i there are three major differences between the old version and the "I'. The first visual is the wood top which is a nice to have but does not improve performance. The movement of the controls from the front to the top is nice but again not a "I gotta have this". BTW, it was a really nice improvement to do on the Depth i since the controls were in the back! The biggest bang, besides more power, is three amps in the Decent i not one like the non "i".
Decisions, decisions, decisions. I will be more than happy to spend someone else's money if they need help.
Just some thoughts to ponder
Jeff
At this point, they are still playing with it trying to make an enough of an improvement over the CLS's. From what I have heard, no earth shaking differences yet and no "great" improvement over the CLS's. I am sure the panel will be a bit better but for those of us who already have CLS's I would not invest in the CLX because it is new or "paired" with a sub which most of us CLS owners are doing already. It will not be that much of an improvement.
As far as the Decent i there are three major differences between the old version and the "I'. The first visual is the wood top which is a nice to have but does not improve performance. The movement of the controls from the front to the top is nice but again not a "I gotta have this". BTW, it was a really nice improvement to do on the Depth i since the controls were in the back! The biggest bang, besides more power, is three amps in the Decent i not one like the non "i".
Decisions, decisions, decisions. I will be more than happy to spend someone else's money if they need help.
Just some thoughts to ponder
Jeff
DTB300
Well-known member
Jeff... Very well put.
CLX: Talk, talk, talk. CLX on a piece of equipment at CES. When ML officially makes an annoucement about the CLX or whatever it will be called, then I will believe it. For now, I am very happy with my CLSIIz's in my acoustically treated room.
Dan
It will may or may not have a specific roll off for the sub and a wider panel other than that there is no other voodoo involved.
At this point, they are still playing with it trying to make an enough of an improvement over the CLS's. From what I have heard, no earth shaking differences yet and no "great" improvement over the CLS's. I am sure the panel will be a bit better but for those of us who already have CLS's I would not invest in the CLX because it is new or "paired" with a sub which most of us CLS owners are doing already. It will not be that much of an improvement.
As far as the Decent i there are three major differences between the old version and the "I'. The first visual is the wood top which is a nice to have but does not improve performance. The movement of the controls from the front to the top is nice but again not a "I gotta have this". BTW, it was a really nice improvement to do on the Depth i since the controls were in the back! The biggest bang, besides more power, is three amps in the Decent i not one like the non "i".
Decisions, decisions, decisions. I will be more than happy to spend someone else's money if they need help.
Just some thoughts to ponder
The fact that you can place the sub in a different location from the panel is an advantage over a hybrid speaker since the optimum location for each is usually not the same place.
It would be hard to improve over the CLS. However, the only CLS that can be had today are used CLSs and a little hard to find unless you get lucky on Audiogon and then there is the shipping, risk factor and lack of warranty issues. A new store bought version is appealling.
If ML does decide to produce a CLX I would be tempted. You know...the Joeyitis thing.
Joey_V
Well-known member
If the CLX does pan out and it proves to be a great speaker, I'll be in line after you Craig.
I have to disagree with you on this one, Jeff. I don't have any doubt at this point that the CLX will be released. There is a lot of love and respect for the CLS in the marketplace, and a lot of interest in another full range panel, and I am pretty sure Martin Logan will want to serve that market. In addition, Martin Logan, in describing the Descent i on their website says: "An optional internal module will be available with low-pass filtering custom tailored to the MartinLogan CLX full-range electrostatic loudspeaker, targeted for release in the fall of 2007." Coming from a company that is usually very tight-lipped about new products, that sounds like a little more than conjecture.
The bigger question, as you point out, is not whether the CLX will be produced, but whether they can make an improvement over the CLS. With the new X-Stat panels, I can't imagine that there wouldn't be some improvement but I don't know. That remains to be seen.
Rich,
I agree there will be an improvement in the panel but as a CLS owner I do not think it will move me to buy one.
I do not know how many people know why the CLS was discontinued because it was not to make room for new models. The reason it was discontinued was no sales. In the last year of production, I was told they sold two. It was about $6k at that time, the economy and the expense to produce it was just not worth the minimal sales. It was a decision by marketing and engineering I am sure and not an easy one to make but at the time, the right one.
I know Gayle wanted to take another shot at it and there were a lot of experiments throughout the life of the CLS of variations that never saw the light of day but in the end the economics of reality killed it not the lack of us purists.
I believe when the club goes to ML in June you will see a prototype rolled out for review in a conference room. I am pretty sure the club will NOT be able to go in to Product Development to see what the future holds. I do not believe a company would want to do this even though we feel we can be of some help. It is a matter of confidentiality and non-disclosure.
Jeff
I agree there will be an improvement in the panel but as a CLS owner I do not think it will move me to buy one.
I do not know how many people know why the CLS was discontinued because it was not to make room for new models.
The reason it was discontinued was no sales. In the last year of production, I was told they sold two. It was about $6k at that time, the economy and the expense to produce it was just not worth the minimal sales. It was a decision by marketing and engineering I am sure and not an easy one to make but at the time, the right one.I know Gayle wanted to take another shot at it and there were a lot of experiments throughout the life of the CLS of variations that never saw the light of day but in the end the economics of reality killed it not the lack of us purists.
I believe when the club goes to ML in June you will see a prototype rolled out for review in a conference room. I am pretty sure the club will NOT be able to go in to Product Development to see what the future holds. I do not believe a company would want to do this even though we feel we can be of some help. It is a matter of confidentiality and non-disclosure.
Jeff
Joey_V
Well-known member
Keep your mind open, Jeff. Who knows, just because it's another full range panel, doesnt mean the sound reproduction cant be different (or better to your ears).
Joey,
I am open but not $10k-ish open. I believe what I have now is at least 80% of what the CLX will be if it were to be released.
Jeff
I am open but not $10k-ish open. I believe what I have now is at least 80% of what the CLX will be if it were to be released.
Jeff
jjqiv
Well-known member
Joey,
I am open but not $10k-ish open. I believe what I have now is at least 80% of what the CLX will be if it were to be released.
Jeff
and can be purchased for 80 to 90 percent less.
Jeff, I couldn't agree with you more. My CLS IIz on stands, ML Depth, and I'm there! BTW, just bought a tube amp to replace my SS M.Levinson 23.5 to drive the panels. It's the fabulous new Mk IV version of the McIntosh MC-275. They sound even better than when I drove them with ARC tube monoblocks!
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lugano
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Apart from impedance problems, in these times of home theater the biggest concern with the CLS/CLX are their size. Their sound is incredible, but many people just don't have the in-house real estate to enjoy them, given that they are in the best case a combo of front speakers in a HT system (with a center, a sub or two, and 2 surounds still to find a place in the room) and your 2 channel setup in the hifi system. Compromises are to be found, both from ML and from the users. Intensive reviewing, great performance, visibility at showrooms and shows and word of mouth might help reinstating the CLS myth - creative marketing must be done this time. But if the CLX really sound fantastic with a paired sub, they might draw sales from the Vantages, Vistas and Summits. IMHO the whole ESL range has to be rethinked - hHaving 2 kings (CLX and Summits) and one Emperor (super summit) does not work. People today, more than ever, think with their wallet before thinking with their ears. Therefore you need a pair of ML's for each 2000$ step, starting at $3000, and everything must follow (size, build, sound accuracy etc). Just take a look at Mercedes, from A-Class to Maybach - that's an easy concept to be followed.
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