CLS alert

[eknuds01]

I have very limited experience with the Summit but some more experience with the CLS (visited DTB300's house on more than one occassion).

The CLS just does some things, particularly in the mid-range (female vocals, jazz, etc) that other speakers simply cannot do. That happens to be my favorite aspect of those speakers (they also look cool!). I also listened to some movies and multichannel SACD and those mediums also sound terrific.

The CLS is fussy - I think you need to mate them with top flight gear and a sub is usually desired, but integrating a sub isn't the easiest thing to do. Having said that, it's not impossible. Many subs come with variable cross overs and extra gear like the SMS-1 can really help.

If one doesn't want to mess with exacting speaker placement, room treatments, and adding descent or two - the Summit is perhaps a better choice. It's also a bit more forgiving on your electronics since the woofers are powered.

Comparing the 2k CLS to brand new 10 or 12k summits isn't really an apples to apples comparison. Used Summits can be had for 4-5k (maybe a bit more, i don't check the used market every day). If you get the CLS and another sub (or two) you're almost within the price range of of a pair of gently used Summits.

I did see those CLSs on the 'Gon and it's not the first time I've almost pulled the trigger. Dan emails me from time to time with used CLS listings. If/when I get my own place and I have a dedicated room, I'd consider it. If I get the CLS - I want to 'do it right' - give them lots of room, mate them with good amps, and spend a few bucks on room treatments.

It should be pointed out that the CLS was probably ahead of it's time with respect to amplification when it wass first released. There are lots of high current solid state and tube amps available. So getting decent gear to run them is less of a problem now compared to 10+ years ago.

Erik

 

[User211]

Gordon and Brad,

Thanks for the input. I'm not worried about volume levels... more what Brad said - just bass weight and punch above sub-woofer frequency.

Having said that, The CLX sounded pretty good with ZZ Top - not that I am a fan, but I do really like some of their stuff. Then again is does have dual force mid/bass.

At the end of the day the only way to find out is to hear a pair. Until then I have no opinion

Here's a link that repeatedly says "not for rock music", however: http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/martin-logan/floorstanding-speakers/cls-iiz/PRD_120997_1594crx.aspx

Justin

 

[DTB300]

Here's a link that repeatedly says "not for rock music", however:

The CLS is QUALITY over QUANTITY. If someone is a real rocker and must have Ted Nuggent sound levels, with body-jello bass level experiences, then the CLS is not the toy to own. But it does stand-up bass superbly and if you really need the extra down low levels, then a sub should be added.

 

[C.A.P]

The CLS will give you exactly what was put on the recording. It will not emphasize the sound. The mid range is magical. The bass can be good with proper room set up I use no sub with mine now and Its as good of a 40 HZ as I have ever heard. As for HT bass I would recommend a sub but what most people think is deep bass is actually around 60 hz for that pounding rock sound.

They need a lot of current to play well I can easily ht 90 db with no distortion. Its just real music !

 

[User211]

As for HT bass I would recommend a sub but what most people think is deep bass is actually around 60 hz for that pounding rock sound.

I think that's about right... but adding a sub even with Ascents helps to give the sound a lot of weight and depth.

The problem seems to be matching subs with the CLS - it's a shame the Descent (not the "i" version) didn't have a CLS setting.

Oh well...

 

[DTB300]

The problem seems to be matching subs with the CLS - it's a shame the Descent (not the "i" version) didn't have a CLS setting.

That is why you add one of these with good room treatments for any sub you want to run:

http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=15&sid=307v305w
http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-subeq.cfm
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx

 

[User211]

Hey DTB - what's with the "radiation left after and as a result of the big bang" display?

Sometimes you have to ask yourself - do I believe these scientists?

You should (generally speaking) - unless you can prove them wrong.

 

[DTB300]

Hey DTB - what's with the "radiation left after and as a result of the big bang" display?

You know when you are sitting there listening to tunes with the telly on (muted) and you fall asleep, then wake up at 4am? There ya go...

Actually, it was an effect I saw and converted it into an avatar.

Sometimes you have to ask yourself - do I believe these scientists?
You should (generally speaking) - unless you can prove them wrong.

Huh?

 

[FISH_MAN]

I wonder how much new bass panels are for the CLX?

 

[tonepub]

I agree with Dan that the full range ability of the CLS make it pretty magical indeed...

 

[DTB300]

If I did not already own the CLS (I also own Sequel II's) I would have considered purchasing the Summits or the Vantages. The new versions of ML Hybrids are better than the older models IMO. Consider purchasing Vantages, Spires, or Summits if the CLS is not for you (room, equipment, music preferences, etc).

 

[danman]

If I did not already own the CLS (I also own Sequel II's) I would have considered purchasing the Summits or the Vantages. The new versions of ML Hybrids are better than the older models IMO. Consider purchasing Vantages, Spires, or Summits if the CLS is not for you (room, equipment, music preferences, etc).

Saying they are better is relative in my opinion! Depends on what you like as sound. The person I bought my Quests from purchased the Summit and yes they are more dynamic but not really better! He told me that there are many things he preferred with the Quest and one was the mid range which he considers much better but that is his opinion.

The new models are different not really better! I considered recently the Spire but other than the incredible bass, I was not convinced enough to fork over that amount of money. I figure if I was really courageous, I would add 2 Jl Fathoms to my system and probably own a killer!

 

[DTB300]

Saying they are better is relative in my opinion!

Sorry for the vagueness. New Hybrid Model Details: Better panel/woofer integration, improved bass response with controls (on some models), easier to drive, larger sweet spot, smaller footprint, internal amps for woofers (on some models), modular electronics design (easier repair), XStat Panels, not as lush sounding as older models, etc. etc. Is that better?

The new models are different not really better!

Different is relative just as my statement about better was.....LOL

I considered recently the Spire but other than the incredible bass, I was not convinced enough to fork over that amount of money.

And I believe that is the agreement here by a bunch of the people who own, have owned, or heard the CLS & Summit. We are not convinced enough to pay for it.

But, just because this is what a bunch of forum posters say about the question is not a good reason to purchase one of the other.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Saying they are better is relative in my opinion! Depends on what you like as sound. The person I bought my Quests from purchased the Summit and yes they are more dynamic but not really better! He told me that there are many things he preferred with the Quest and one was the mid range which he considers much better but that is his opinion.

The new models are different not really better! I considered recently the Spire but other than the incredible bass, I was not convinced enough to fork over that amount of money. I figure if I was really courageous, I would add 2 Jl Fathoms to my system and probably own a killer!

Hi danman,

You have me confused.

You start out your post by saying "Saying they are better is relative in my opinion."

OK, I can agree to that.

Then you say "The new models are different not really better".

If Product A is different than Product B, this would infer that the individual who makes a decision to buy Product A versus B or vice versa, has made a relative judgement that A is better than B (or B better than A) based on his or her opinion.

After having owned four (4) different ML models over some 25 years, I believe that the newer models are better, particularly with the panel / driver blending. And regarding your friends observation that the Summits are more dynamic but not really better, that observation is way too general to have any credence. And, a transducer's ability to more accurately produce dynamic gradations will, by nature and assuming all else is equal, be a more involving speaker.

GG

 

[danman]

WHOA!!!! Slow down cowboys!!!

I suppose I did not include enough explanation here!!! When I say the word "better" I only mean sound wise depending on how we individually perceive it! Yes the technology is much better and so on but we have to be careful how we define them soundwise!

Give me the CLX anyday!!!!!!!!!!! Is this to say that it is better than the Focal Grande Utopia???? NO! Not in MY opinion but to some it may be. I will say one thing after having heard the Focal....it is great but I still have not heard the CLX! Maybe I would like the CLX much more even though it is no where near the price point or technology of the Focal.

I was stating a personal view as you were and after listening to many ML models I can say that the new ones sound better but not night and day! I did not mean to casue WW3 here only that the word "better" is relative to the individual.

One thing I have really learned over the years is that more expensive does not always mean better!

 

[Gordon Gray]

No worries here danman.

Your follow up helped explain.

The word better, as you have suggested, is based totally on personal opinion and perspective.

I tend to get a bit concerned when one uses that word without appropriate clarification.

Take care.

GG

 

[danman]

No worries here danman.

Your follow up helped explain.

The word better, as you have suggested, is based totally on personal opinion and perspective.

I tend to get a bit concerned when one uses that word without appropriate qualifications.

Take care.

GG

Well, I do have a little apology to give you as I just returned from my friend that owns the Summit's and yes they are really hot!!! I still like my mids better as he does also but everything else is sublime! I can only imagine the Summit X!

Still not night and day but he has really expensive and powerful electronics (all YBA Passion 1000 series)! His amp costs 16000$ alone! I am sure that has a lot to do with it to! My apologies and I did not mean that as you go up the ladder, things don't get better because of course they really do!