Chicago Shooutout: ML Summits vs Sanders 10b

[Burke]

Round 1 goes to the ML Summit

Today, Rich and Glen from the Chicago Audio Society dropped by for a listen. We spent about about 2 hours tweaking and listening to the 10b's (they were set up first) and then an hour with the Summits. Round 1 goes to the Summits. We never could the 10b's set up quite right, where as we knew where the Summits needed to be placed and had run the Audyssey EQ prior to Rich and Glen arrival.

Both speakers are excellent, but the sound in the Sander's seemed to pull to the right and we were unable to correct this. When Rich arrived I had only had the speakers operational for about one hour so this does not give the descision to ML just yet. I have much playing with the Sanders, both in terms of positioning, tweaking the crossover, and running Audyssey MultEQ.

The room is so small that one system has to be swapped out so that the other can be installed. The ML system will probably stay installed throughout the weekend to play some movies and the game tomorrow. Then the Sanders System will go back during the week for some serious tuning time. Hopefully the new mic and R+D software from Acoustisoft will arrive this week before the shootout in time for me to tune both systems.

 

[Angela]

Burke, thanks for the invitation. Please put me down for Sunday the 8th. Let me know if I can bring anything.



This is based on direct communication with Roger so it should be accurate.
.....

Oh, and just the other day, he informed me that he will offer a 10c model speaker with digital crossovers. They will have the ability to produce steeper slopes (48 dB/octave) and allow one to chose the filter type, crossover frequency, equalization, and phase alignment. No amp will be included with the 10c's.

Slight correction -> While it will not come with the crossover amp, it will come with an ESL amp and the digital crossover.

Oh and Roger will call you tomorrow to help you set them up correctly. thanks for posting the pictures! (remember those boxes were from The Show and then shipped again, so that's why they look so beat)

cheers!

 

[Burke]

Oh and Roger will call you tomorrow to help you set them up correctly. thanks for posting the pictures! (remember those boxes were from The Show and then shipped again, so that's why they look so beat)

I spent a good deal of Monday night setting up the 10b's again this time not rushed and double checking everything, and relocating my ESL 2 channel amp back into the media room from the equipment room. This allowed me to do a much more controlled and comprehensive test. After hooking my music server directly to the crossover amp to eliminate the pre/processor as a source of the problem (yes the crossover amp can function as a preamp for a single source system). I was able to now switch inputs right to left and outputs/speakers right to left. The problem stayed on the left, about 5 db lower volume than the right. And because the 10b's are modular I was able to swap the ESL panels right to left, This seemed to solve the problem for a while but then it returned. Roger and I talked today and agreed that it must be the high voltage power supply in the left speaker, The panel must not be charging properly. And new ps is now in route.



I spent the remainder of this evening tuning the ML Summit system, and I am getting very close. I can get my now get my equipment (Integra 9.8 & Oppo 981) to sound almost as good as David's CJ Act 2 and Ayre CX-5 did ten days ago. I can hardly wait to hear David's stuff again with the better speaker chair placement.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Bring your Trumpet, we can do a blind listening test.
Is it the ML's or Doug?

"You Can't Handle The Truth!!" In my best Jack voice

Doug - out

 

[Cherian]

Burke,

Good Stuff!!! I look forward to seeing nad listening to your system on Sunday. Do you want me to bring anything? Also can you please PM me your address?

Thanks

 

[Cosmos]

Boy, would I like to make it to this meet. It sure would be worth the drive. Unfortunately, the lake I have a cottage on has "Tip Up" this weekend and I'd hate to miss it, but the weather forecast is for rain... Maybe?

CAP, do you have any interest in sharing a ride?

 

[Burke]

Definately grab CAP and stop by. We are expecting a heat wave on Sunday about 50 degrees.

 

[tsmooth]

How far from Milwaukee to you, about 2 hours? This post is starting to peak my interests.

 

[C.A.P]

Boy, would I like to make it to this meet. It sure would be worth the drive. Unfortunately, the lake I have a cottage on has "Tip Up" this weekend and I'd hate to miss it, but the weather forecast is for rain... Maybe?

CAP, do you have any interest in sharing a ride?

Cosmos Yes I would be interested in going Sunday ! Ill call ya !

 

[Burke]

How far from Milwaukee to you, about 2 hours? This post is starting to peak my interests.

correct about 2-2.5 hours (I am in Western Burbs about 3 miles from I-88 and I-355)

 

[Burke]

The panel must not be charging properly. And new ps is now in route.

The new power supply is in and that will be my evening installing, setting up, positioning, and listening.

see you all on Sunday

 

[Burke]

We have a contest

The new power supply is installed and the Sanders 10b's are in position. I have listening for about two hours now. All 16 bit 44Khz from the music server. These are definitely Summit caliber.

The sound stage is much bigger than the Summits and the instruments are better placed. For me and classical music these are the winner. They sound more like Symphony hall than any speaker I have ever heard.

The 10b's are very engaging and very easy to listen to. Like Roger's electronics they just get out of the way of the music.

Sunday is going to be very interesting. If you are still debating if you are going to make it, you will regret it if you don't.

David, listened to Dave Burbeck's Castillian Drums, you are in for a real treat better than I remember it.

Moving on to high resolution music SACDs and DVD-A's

 

[Burke]

Round 2 goes to the Sander's 10b

Another 2 hours of listening, to SACDs and round 2 goes to the Sanders.

 

[amey01]

This.......is going to be interesting. Make sure you all post your thoughts!

 

[mgakathereaper]

I was hoping to make the haul from Cleveland but I have to fly out of town for business. I will look for future gatherings.

 

[Burke]

I was hoping to make the haul from Cleveland but I have to fly out of town for business. I will look for future gatherings.

No problem, you can stop by then fly out from O'Hare:devil:

 

[mgakathereaper]

I actually contemplated something along those lines but logistics just would not work. I would have liked to bring along my Krell EVO stuff. Next time I suppose.

 

[David Matz]

Looks like the 10b is based on the Innersound eros 3 speaker according to the post above. Larry Greenhill reviewed this a few years ago in Stereophile. Greenhill's taste is for "neutral" and "transparent" electronics, which sound "cold and hard" to some. I am sure the conclusions would be the similar if he used tubes or "warmer" electronics. He loves electostats and just bought the review sample of the killer Bryston 28B SST, which he raved about (as did Harry Pearson, by the way). He used Bryston electronics in this review also, which is similar to Innersound's goal of seeking transparency. He also had the Quad and the Prodigy for comparisons.



“The Eros Mk.III's bass response was airier-sounding than that of other top speaker systems.
<o></o>
Sure, the mids and highs were fast, transparent, and rich, with a sheen and harmonic structure that were stunningly new and different. Sure, the speakers "disappeared" and engulfed me in sound. But there was more. Never had I heard such a large soundstage, such a distinctive layering of instruments and vocalists, or such realistic crowd noise. I could easily tell that lead singer Stevie Nicks was moving around, alternating between singing close to the microphone and then turning away. As she sang "Silver Springs," I wrote in my notes, "Nicks has never sounded as realistic, as emotionally moving, or as powerful. It's as if I've never heard this album before."
<o></o>
….(compared to the quad) the Eros Mk.III needs no protection system, and so tolerated high-powered solid-state amplifiers, played louder, and had a more extended top end. While the MartinLogan Prodigy's Bass Forward woofer produces tighter, deeper bass, and its sweet spot is much wider, the Eros created the broadest, deepest, and most three-dimensional soundstage of these three ESLs.

<o></o>
Despite the commonality of their designers' names, the sounds of these three electrostatic loudspeakers differ in fundamental ways. You'll just have to audition all of them before deciding what to buy. It should be fun.”
<o></o>
The words can only go so far. Now it’s time to listen and experience. Greenhill could not have said it better: I am looking forward to the fun.

 

[SCompRacer]

I'm still in for Sunday Burke. Looking forward to meeting you and the other denizens of the ML forum that will be attending.

 

[SCompRacer]

Just have time for a quick pic upload. The second shot is either creative blur of David's fine pre amp tubes, or an old guy who can't hold a camera steady for an existing light shot.

Burke, thanks for having me over. The food and drink were excellent! It was great meeting all of you! Gotta spend some time with the wife now. Later....