Can Impression 11A or Montis handle Rock well?

[Mike in NJ]

That may be true, but I'm not giving up ��
Maybe this next purchase will be it!
I'm slowing down with age - it's been a fun trip though, I've learned a lot along the way!

 

[timm]

I suppose 100db, 105db peaks.
I will be running a music reference rm200 tube amp (going straight through a NAD dac that has volume).
I also have 12 SET amp, and an musical fidelity int amp that has 150 watts.
I spoke to Roger majeski from music reference and he said his amp would work well.
I also have an audible illusions tube pre amp needs tubes for a pre amp.
Mike

Mike ... welcome to MLO. I agree with everything rich said above. I have never wanted for more loudness

 

[jtucker]

I should clarify on my previous comments. When I was referring to "moderately loud" Montis playback, I meant really loud as I would like. We definitely like to rock out on occasion and twist the big knob up. Just not crazy loud (IRS Gamma) of my misspent youth. I suppose I am lucky not to have hearing damage between insanely loud stereo, concerts, and factory work ( had to use sign language to communicate it was so loud). I am using Pass Labs INT-150 to power the Montis, and like I said I can go as loud as I want to go, but your mileage may vary. Montis will not do what Klipsch will do. I also had a pair of Klipsch Chorus for a while in a second system. They would go loud loud loud. I was at a friend of a friends house once who had an extensive all Klipsch set up, K-horns and others. It was crazy. Bass made my clothes flap like a windy day, probably the loudest home set up I have heard. Would I trade my Montis for any Klipsch set up? No way. I have not heard them, but I expect the Renaissance 15s would get seriously loud. If you can still find them, I got my Montis for exactly 1/2 list.

 

[timm]

Perhaps I am overestimating the FB levels then.
I have a pair of tonian labs tld1 speakers that use a 8" fostex driver and they go loud enough except for peaks, then they start to distort a little.
If the logans could do better with deeper bass I would be good.
I've been in this hobby quite awhile. Just never had logans .
Had B&W, Wilson. Magnepan, Kef, Audio Physic, Piega, Harbeth, Tannoy, Rogers, Merlin, just never Logans..lol

What Magnepans did you have Mike? The logans will give you more of that pants flapping bass typical of something like a cone speaker..... The high end will sparkle ... the mids will be clear.... Lower mids will be a little on the shy side (in my opinion) .... whereas the Maggie is a bit fuller there - but doesn't have the pants flapping type of bass.... They can disappear nicely - image into the room beautifully .... and make you say 'wow'.... I don't think a Montis needs a sub at all.... the cones are powered .... and I have heard them knock me over...

Poor recordings: they will show themselves ..... If you have a reflective room - or you can't pull them out into the room (at least 5') - that will be an issue....

 

[Northy]

You will be very happy with a pair of Montis. However, you should buy a Balanced Force 210 or 212 to anchor down the bass. It will really augment the sound of the panels. Since I have added a 210 to my Theos, my enjoyment of music has gone to nth degree. ML Balanced Force subs are exceptional. I cannot ever go back!!!

 

[timm]

You will be very happy with a pair of Montis. However, you should buy a Balanced Force 210 or 212 to anchor down the bass. It will really augment the sound of the panels. Since I have added a 210 to my Theos, my enjoyment of music has gone to nth degree. ML Balanced Force subs are exceptional. I cannot ever go back!!!

I am sure those subs are great - but I still don't think the montis needs it. The theos - I can understand. But I think you could consider a sub as a luxury item to think about later. Those powered woofers put out a lot of output...go pretty low. So I'm not disagreeing about what a sub can bring. I just think the Theos benefit from it greatly and whether the montis really needs it ... welll I just don't think it does. Anyone that has heard it can chime in.

 

[twich54]

I am sure those subs are great - but I still don't think the montis needs it. The theos - I can understand. But I think you could consider a sub as a luxury item to think about later. Those powered woofers put out a lot of output...go pretty low. So I'm not disagreeing about what a sub can bring. I just think the Theos benefit from it greatly and whether the montis really needs it ... welll I just don't think it does. Anyone that has heard it can chime in.

Timm, it all depends on ones room and their need for bottom octave reinforcement. I had my Spire's in my 14'6" x 24' room and I can tell you the addition of a sub was a definite plus !

 

[Mike in NJ]

Hello, thanks everyone for your input.
I think I will take the plunge and get a pair of impressions.
I understand that I can pick up a pair of Montis for around 5k ,but I found someone selling a pair of 11A's for 7k - are 11A's worth the extra 2k?
Im looking forward to this cause I really always wanted to try them out!

 

[timm]

Timm, it all depends on ones room and their need for bottom octave reinforcement. I had my Spire's in my 14'6" x 24' room and I can tell you the addition of a sub was a definite plus !

I buy that. I follow your posts too Dave!!

 

[timm]

Hello, thanks everyone for your input.
I think I will take the plunge and get a pair of impressions.
I understand that I can pick up a pair of Montis for around 5k ,but I found someone selling a pair of 11A's for 7k - are 11A's worth the extra 2k?
Im looking forward to this cause I really always wanted to try them out!

Without hearing it... I would say yes. . I think the larger cabinet for the woofers is going to do wonders. Plus ARC. Plus latest speaker w new tech. What speaker has larger panels?? I'm not sure

 

[jtucker]

$7k for Impressions seems like a good deal. Not sure if they are worth $2k more than Montis. The general specifications are the same, but you have to suppose the Impressions are an upgrade over the Montis. In general, i would prefer the bass from 2 x 8" over a single 10". In theory, the response should be quicker. I think it is your call on that. All I can say is I am quite satisfied with Montis and money being equal would not trade them for Summit X. Have only had limited listening to the new MLs...Liked what I have heard so far, but don't have near the listening time as i have had with Summit, Summit X , Vantage, Montis (own now), Ethos (owned previous) and Theos,

 

[Mike in NJ]

Timm, I have owned Manepan 1.6, 1.7, and 3.6's.
I liked them a lot, however somtimes I had issues getting the center image as solid as I would like.
The issue I had with them (besides the image) was that they were too physically imposing, i felt they got in the way of me enjoying them. (Just by looking at them get in the way of the soundstage.) My eyes would move to the image, left and right, and I always would see those big panels.
I know the Logan's are tall too, but you can see through them, and they are not as wide.
I don't think it will be as big an issue for me (I hope )

 

[C.A.P]

having owned big 3 series Maggies, I can relate.. HUGE doors standing in front of you.. it was almost like the image had to go around the panel at times..

Logan's are a bit less as you stated being semi transparent .. If I was spending north of $10k I would look at the new Force Forward series.DSP and all

 

[Northy]

I am sure those subs are great - but I still don't think the montis needs it. The theos - I can understand. But I think you could consider a sub as a luxury item to think about later. Those powered woofers put out a lot of output...go pretty low. So I'm not disagreeing about what a sub can bring. I just think the Theos benefit from it greatly and whether the montis really needs it ... welll I just don't think it does. Anyone that has heard it can chime in.

I forgot to mention that I am filtering out sub-80 Hz from the Theos through my processor. The result is that now, the woofer in Theos handles the upper bass beautifully without any sign of stress/distress. The sub-80 HZ is handled by the 210. Like anything in this life, when you divide up duties over more who carry them out, the results are much better. When I bought the 210, I was expecting a moderate improvement in the sound quality. But boy, I was blown away from the get-go as to how the overall sound quality has improved. it is not only the bass. Sound staging, depth, precision and even voices sound much better. I know it is crazy, but it is true. I cannot describe it. I am rediscovering my music and movie collection again.

Short of having monster tower speakers with mega price tag, there is no substitute for a dedicated ML Balanced Force sub. It is not a luxury item - it is an integral part if you truly want to enjoy the music as intended in the studio. Mind you it is expensive but well worth it.

 

[BigDDesign]

Just joined forum. Read what you guys thought about Rock going thru Montis. I have just ESLs, but my opinion is if you like to blast rock, don't buy Martin Logan. Conventional Tower speakers will produce a more rewarding experience, and most of the rock tracks will sound good. Conventional speakers can mask the crappy recordings quite well. And the dynamic power of dynamic drivers are much better suited for rock at ear splitting levels. Many times subs aren't needed with some of the conventional designs that have one or two 12" drivers built into the cabinet. Legacy Audio comes to mind. Even top shelf JBLs are tailor made for Rock Music.

I love my Martin Logans. I listen to music that is not the in your face balls out stuff of my youth. Martin Logan has some of the best sound and imaging I have ever heard. But I don't kid myself and think they are a rock speaker at heart. I use Krell and Mark Levinson amps, REL subs. Martin Logan needs sub or subs. I prefer 2 subs, one for each channel. The soundstage is much larger and stereo separation is much more pronounced. I use Speakon Connections from the Krell or the Mark Levinson to run the subs in stereo. Well here I am guys. Sorry if my two cents on the rock speakers put anyone on the side of tweaked about my opinion. But seriously, I'm 60, and been around the block a few times. Martin Logan will play rock music. But I would not call them my choice for that genre of music.

 

[timm]

I forgot to mention that I am filtering out sub-80 Hz from the Theos through my processor. The result is that now, the woofer in Theos handles the upper bass beautifully without any sign of stress/distress. The sub-80 HZ is handled by the 210. Like anything in this life, when you divide up duties over more who carry them out, the results are much better. When I bought the 210, I was expecting a moderate improvement in the sound quality. But boy, I was blown away from the get-go as to how the overall sound quality has improved. it is not only the bass. Sound staging, depth, precision and even voices sound much better. I know it is crazy, but it is true. I cannot describe it. I am rediscovering my music and movie collection again.

Short of having monster tower speakers with mega price tag, there is no substitute for a dedicated ML Balanced Force sub. It is not a luxury item - it is an integral part if you truly want to enjoy the music as intended in the studio. Mind you it is expensive but well worth it.

I believe everything you say as I have had similar experiences when adding a descent to my odysseys. I just think some speakers have a huge jump where others - not as much

 

[timm]

I am curious. BigD - have you given the Montis a listen? I would highly recommend a sub for your speakers , the Theos and other smaller Logans. My odysseys used to run with a descent - then I pulled my pre out of the chain - and the descent is not needed. And as Dave said above - highly room dependent.

Can we define 'rock' ? I mean are we talking 70s rock and those crappy recordings? Or are we talking Dave Matthews ...or Beatles abbey road , or Neil Young, or other well recorded rock albums? Yah - Logans will suck on something like Foreigner or heavy synth or rap - poorly recorded Fender guitars. So what are we talking about when we say 'rock'?

 

[BigDDesign]

I am curious. BigD - have you given the Montis a listen? I would highly recommend a sub for your speakers

I would love to own the Montis. It has the larger Xstat panel. I have budget constraints, and have spent a large amount of money on a couple of really good amplifiers and subwoofers. My ESLs I got 5 years ago from Martin Logan that were refreshed for just a little over half price. I would say that the Montis is exactly the speaker of the future for my system. I just don't have the funds to support it after spending money on the Krell KST-100 and the Mark Levinson No.331. Both amps were recently serviced and new capacitors on the Mark Levinson No.331. I am very happy with my ESLs. They fit my livingroom nicely. The Montis would be even better. One day when I recharge my budget and get the itch, the Montis is on the menu. The best thing about Martin Logans is that the Xstat transducer is the same across the line. It is just a matter of size and crossover, dynamic drivers. Not many speakers share this quality.

Now getting to the subs. I have a Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 that I got 5 years ago when I bought the ESLs. I no longer use that sub. I now have a pair of REL S3 subwoofers running with Speakon Connections directly from the speakers outputs of the amplifiers in true stereo. These cost new $2,099.00/sub. I got them for cheaper. They sound fast and tight and can keep up with the Martin Logan panels in a way that the Dynamo 1000 could not. The REL brand is known for not destroying the music. I understand the the new Martin Logan Balanced Force sub is very good at that as well. But I have a thing for the so called "REL Effect" and the subtle addition to the bottom end and addition as well to the midrange that the RELs bring. I was so floored when I bought one REL S3 with the sound and the speed, the integration with the electrostatic panels.... that I shopped for a second one within 10 days of buying the first REL. I keep reading and most REL users are into the club of having 2 REL subwoofers in the system. It is to balance out the sound. Makes a difference they say. Well.... when they are properly setup and one is getting the left channel, and the other is getting the right channel..... Wow.


quote from timm.....
"Can we define 'rock' ? I mean are we talking 70s rock and those crappy recordings? Or are we talking Dave Matthews ...or Beatles abbey road , or Neil Young, or other well recorded rock albums? Yah - Logans will suck on something like Foreigner or heavy synth or rap - poorly recorded Fender guitars. So what are we talking about when we say 'rock'?"

Rock Defined by me....
Rolling Stones
Jimi Hendrix
Van Halen
Guns & Roses
Allman Brothers
Bryan Adams
Peter Frampton
Def Leopard
Eric Clapton
Foreigner
Led Zepplin
Black Sabbath
These are the building block guys of rock. There are many others a lot harder or softer but without these guys, who knows where things would've went. I love my Logans, but they don't do justice to rock as much as they do to many other types of music.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this gives you guys a little backround on my system. My upgrades yet to come are the DAC (from my existing Schiit Modi 2 Multi-Bit to Schiit top of the line DAC Yggy), and new speaker cable. I use Morrow Audio MA4 Reference interconnects between my Schiit Freya (4 Tubes) Preamp and my Krell KST-100. That's all for now. Cheers.

 

[Northy]

I would love to own the Montis. It has the larger Xstat panel. I have budget constraints, and have spent a large amount of money on a couple of really good amplifiers and subwoofers. My ESLs I got 5 years ago from Martin Logan that were refreshed for just a little over half price. I would say that the Montis is exactly the speaker of the future for my system. I just don't have the funds to support it after spending money on the Krell KST-100 and the Mark Levinson No.331. Both amps were recently serviced and new capacitors on the Mark Levinson No.331. I am very happy with my ESLs. They fit my livingroom nicely. The Montis would be even better. One day when I recharge my budget and get the itch, the Montis is on the menu. The best thing about Martin Logans is that the Xstat transducer is the same across the line. It is just a matter of size and crossover, dynamic drivers. Not many speakers share this quality.

Now getting to the subs. I have a Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 that I got 5 years ago when I bought the ESLs. I no longer use that sub. I now have a pair of REL S3 subwoofers running with Speakon Connections directly from the speakers outputs of the amplifiers in true stereo. These cost new $2,099.00/sub. I got them for cheaper. They sound fast and tight and can keep up with the Martin Logan panels in a way that the Dynamo 1000 could not. The REL brand is known for not destroying the music. I understand the the new Martin Logan Balanced Force sub is very good at that as well. But I have a thing for the so called "REL Effect" and the subtle addition to the bottom end and addition as well to the midrange that the RELs bring. I was so floored when I bought one REL S3 with the sound and the speed, the integration with the electrostatic panels.... that I shopped for a second one within 10 days of buying the first REL. I keep reading and most REL users are into the club of having 2 REL subwoofers in the system. It is to balance out the sound. Makes a difference they say. Well.... when they are properly setup and one is getting the left channel, and the other is getting the right channel..... Wow.


quote from timm.....
"Can we define 'rock' ? I mean are we talking 70s rock and those crappy recordings? Or are we talking Dave Matthews ...or Beatles abbey road , or Neil Young, or other well recorded rock albums? Yah - Logans will suck on something like Foreigner or heavy synth or rap - poorly recorded Fender guitars. So what are we talking about when we say 'rock'?"

Rock Defined by me....
Rolling Stones
Jimi Hendrix
Van Halen
Guns & Roses
Allman Brothers
Bryan Adams
Peter Frampton
Def Leopard
Eric Clapton
Foreigner
Led Zepplin
Black Sabbath
These are the building block guys of rock. There are many others a lot harder or softer but without these guys, who knows where things would've went. I love my Logans, but they don't do justice to rock as much as they do to many other types of music.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this gives you guys a little backround on my system. My upgrades yet to come are the DAC (from my existing Schiit Modi 2 Multi-Bit to Schiit top of the line DAC Yggy), and new speaker cable. I use Morrow Audio MA4 Reference interconnects between my Schiit Freya (4 Tubes) Preamp and my Krell KST-100. That's all for now. Cheers.

Hello Big D,

I respect your decision to go with the RELs. They make great subs without a doubt. I auditioned a couple of RELs around $3K and as great as they sounded, I preferred the Balanced Force 210. 210's speed is second to none and the drivers firing in opposing directions ensures no overhang.

 

[BigDDesign]

Hello Big D,

I respect your decision to go with the RELs. They make great subs without a doubt. I auditioned a couple of RELs around $3K and as great as they sounded, I preferred the Balanced Force 210. 210's speed is second to none and the drivers firing in opposing directions ensures no overhang.

I hear that the 210 is amazing. Haven't heard it yet. I live pretty far away now from audio salons now since the move to Florida. Would love to hear them with some of the ML panels.

Got one REL refurbished for $1,400 instead of $2,100. The other REL was bought in need of repair. Got it working somehow, not sure how. Paid $378 for it. Lucky win there. So a total of $1,778 for 2 REL S3s. These are the good REL S3s not the new REL S3 SHO models. I have been happy as a clam since I got everything setup and working. And that was just recently. It's the stereo separation of the two subs I got right this week, and took off the subwoofer grills. What an improvement all over the soundfield. Nice to meet you Northy.