Back into MLs with a vengeance

[edmiston]

Hi, my name is Mark, and I have a speaker problem........So I have been a planar guy since my first pair of Acoustat Xs back in, well, never mind. First had ML in the 80's (Monolith ll, then CLS), later Summits. I've had most electrostats, and have migrated back to cone speakers when I couldn't stand the overwhelming presence of Sound Labs, Maggies, etc. Finally decided I could not look at big doors in my living room, and was (nearly) satisfied with Elac Navis(es?, i?) But I just missed that big planar presentation and clarity. I decided that the only planars I could live with were MLs, as their transparent panels somewhat mitigate the size. I started researching the newest generation, then, well then I fell down the rabbit hole.
I ordered a pair of 15a's, and am absolutely delighted with them, and don't even have the PBK yet. To my ear, they are a bit warmer and more musical than my Summits were, and the bass integration is superb. My music and av system are one, and I listen to a lot of multichannel music, so despite the excellent imaging of the 15a's, I talked myself into a c34a, which will ship tomorrow. Then, through a long involved process of sequential thought progression and absurd rationalization, I convinced myself that a pair of 11a's were in order for surrounds. I will begin my twelve step program shortly.

 

[ttocs]

I don't think the people in the white coats will take you away after listening to your system, they will want to stay and hear more!

What amplification are you using?

 

[JonFo]

Congratulations!

That sounds like a great multichannel setup, but do take care to treat the room so you can get the most out of them.
I wound with more treatments (no, not that kind) in my room than I ever imagined, but the superbly focused sound field is a delight.
Listening to Jacques Lousier Trio ‘The Best of Play Bach’ on 5.1 SACD and it is like they are here.

Just wait until you run PBK, takes the bass to a whole new level!

What about subs?

Which processor are you running?

Welcome to the MLO forum.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[edmiston]

I am using Bryston 7B3s on the 15a's. I was unable to find a single 7B3 for the center on the used market, and seeing how badly they depreciate, I was not keen to buy a third one new, as I bought the original two new. My dealer wanted me to buy a BelCanto mono, and I am sure they are great, but I still have this tiny class D bias (irrational perhaps, but there you are) and I located a few mint Mac pieces second hand at a good price, so I have an MC-301 coming for the center and an MC-152 coming for the rears. I should be able to sell them without loosing my shirt (as I always tend to do) if I decide on something else. I still have a bit of a soft spot for Mac from my teenage years. I am using an Oppo 205 for a source, and frankly I think its D/A processing is superior to most pre/pros. I dont care about other zones, etc. I have a BelCanto Pre6 Gen ll for a preamp. I have been running the Oppo direct to the amps due to space limitations in my cabinet, which I am about to address. I will then add the BelCanto back in, but I have to tell you the Oppo straight in is no slouch. I have a bunch of old ASC tube traps and I am ordering some GIK art panels, but my room is large with high ceilings and is not very problematic. I have lots of classical concerts on BluRay, and Mahler with Claudio Abbado is magical. Then again, so are the Peter Gabriel concerts as well as the 25th Anniversary Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (truly amazing). Pictures will follow when all is in order. Thanks for your comments.

Mark

 

[edmiston]

Oh, as for subs, I have a pair of Salk/Rythmik 15 beasts that are beautiful, but I am not currently using them. I'm going to try to sell them, but it would have to be a local Florida sale, as there is no way I could ship them.

 

[TomDac]

Welcome back to the fold, edmiston!! Glad to have you back.

 

[twich54]

Mark, interesting problem to have !

 

[roberto]

Hola Mark,
Its a Martin Logan sickness called Joeyitis...and there is still no cure for it.

Welcome again to our beloved forum,
Roberto.

 

[Hear Here]

... I decided that the only planars I could live with were MLs, as their transparent panels somewhat mitigate the size. I started researching the newest generation, then, well then I fell down the rabbit hole.
I ordered a pair of 15a's, and am absolutely delighted with them, and don't even have the PBK yet.

Hello Mark. I was in a similar situation to you a couple of years ago, in that "barn doors" were not welcome in my living room. I'd been using big Quads for a few months - bought as my first ELS speaker system. I liked the Quads - they sounded very similar to the Avantgarde Unos that I'd owned since about 2002, but totally unacceptable aesthetically.

I looked at the various ELS speakers available in UK and listened to ML 13As at a London showroom. They sounded great so I bought a pair. However when they arrived, I was a little disappointed - they just didn't excite in the way my horns did. I kept them for several weeks to ensure they were well run in and the bass equalisation was carefully set up by the importer using the PBK kit.

Unfortunately, they still didn't sound as good as the Unos although they really are very good. I asked friends to listen including one who is a Quad user, but every single listener agreed that the Unos sounded better, with the systems set up side-by-side with appropriate amps - Sanders Magtech or GamuT on MLs and NAD M32 on AGs. As you can imagine, this was devastingly disappointing after spending so much (much more than US buyers) on these lovely new speakers. Then I spotted a pair of used Avantgarde Duos from about 2003 for sale at a bargain price, which I snapped up.

I wonder if the 15As would have been more suitable for my large, semi-circular, low-ceilinged room? Perhaps they’d have been an improvement over my 16 year old AGs, but they really are outside my price bracket. I now have speakers even better than the Unos and the 13As. Sadly the MLs are now for sale - at a big loss to me but possibly a bargain to someone who's looking for the ML electrostatic sound. Peter

 

[timm]

Hello Mark. I was in a similar situation to you a couple of years ago, in that "barn doors" were not welcome in my living room. I'd been using big Quads for a few months - bought as my first ELS speaker system. I liked the Quads - they sounded very similar to the Avantgarde Unos that I'd owned since about 2002, but totally unacceptable aesthetically.

I looked at the various ELS speakers available in UK and listened to ML 13As at a London showroom. They sounded great so I bought a pair. However when they arrived, I was a little disappointed - they just didn't excite in the way my horns did. I kept them for several weeks to ensure they were well run in and the bass equalisation was carefully set up by the importer using the PBK kit.

Unfortunately, they still didn't sound as good as the Unos although they really are very good. I asked friends to listen including one who is a Quad user, but every single listener agreed that the Unos sounded better, with the systems set up side-by-side with appropriate amps - Sanders Magtech or GamuT on MLs and NAD M32 on AGs. As you can imagine, this was devastingly disappointing after spending so much (much more than US buyers) on these lovely new speakers. Then I spotted a pair of used Avantgarde Duos from about 2003 for sale at a bargain price, which I snapped up.

I wonder if the 15As would have been more suitable for my large, semi-circular, low-ceilinged room? Perhaps they’d have been an improvement over my 16 year old AGs, but they really are outside my price bracket. I now have speakers even better than the Unos and the 13As. Sadly the MLs are now for sale - at a big loss to me but possibly a bargain to someone who's looking for the ML electrostatic sound. Peter

View attachment 20193

Hear Here. I want more pictures of this room and what you look at with that telescope.

 

[edmiston]

Hi Peter,

I was originally going to get 13a's - it seemed like the sweet spot in the lineup. I called Albert Portis at Precision AV in Chicago about a used pair of 13a's he had. When he had a feel for my disease, he assured me that I wanted 15s, not 13s, and he insisted that they were much better - more than you would expect going from 10" to 12" woofers and a bit bigger panel. He was adamant. I thought it was a clever ploy to empty my wallet, but he had a show sample pair from ML that were perfect but being sold at a big discount - they were even walnut, which is what I wanted, so I went for them and love them. Looking at your room, I am not surprised that you prefer the sound of your horn speakers. You have lots of hard reflective surfaces, so I would think nearfield listening to controlled dispersion speakers would give you the least room effect. For me, part of the planar magic is the space created by the reflected wave. The front wall is part of your speaker, if you will, but for ideal results you have to be not too close and not too far from the wall behind the speakers, and that wall should have some (but not too much) absorption and some diffusion. It can be tricky to get right.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Avantgardes!

 

[Hear Here]

Hi Ed and thanks for your reply. Yes, I'm sure the room makes a big difference and mine is certainly difficult being roughly semi-circular with the speakers either side of a central column facing across the room, with low ceiling height. There is 12 ft behind one and 15 ft behind the other to the "back" wall - UK description of your "front" wall"! Asking on forums, I was encouraged to go the ML route as most thought that a big distance behind ELS speakers was a good thing. Certainly the Quads sounded good in the same position.

My breakfast bar and dining table are behind the speakers and the MLs sounded very good from these places - much better than the very forward-projecting horns.

This ML range of speakers is impossible to find used in UK as their price is so inflated and few are sold new. The 13As are listed at £18 000 here - about $22 000, but this does include tax. The 15As are much more and out of my price range. If anything was available used, I'd have probably gone for the 15As.

It all goes to show that a home demo before purchase is essential for things such as expensive speakers. I'm sure the 13As would sound fabulous in most rooms and I hope I can sell them to someone in the UK with a room that's a bit less quirky than mine!

 

[zigman]

Hi Peter,

I was originally going to get 13a's - it seemed like the sweet spot in the lineup. I called Albert Portis at Precision AV in Chicago about a used pair of 13a's he had. When he had a feel for my disease, he assured me that I wanted 15s, not 13s, and he insisted that they were much better - more than you would expect going from 10" to 12" woofers and a bit bigger panel. He was adamant. I thought it was a clever ploy to empty my wallet, but he had a show sample pair from ML that were perfect but being sold at a big discount - they were even walnut, which is what I wanted, so I went for them and love them. Looking at your room, I am not surprised that you prefer the sound of your horn speakers. You have lots of hard reflective surfaces, so I would think nearfield listening to controlled dispersion speakers would give you the least room effect. For me, part of the planar magic is the space created by the reflected wave. The front wall is part of your speaker, if you will, but for ideal results you have to be not too close and not too far from the wall behind the speakers, and that wall should have some (but not too much) absorption and some diffusion. It can be tricky to get right.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Avantgardes!

Albert’s great! Almost everything he has recommended has been pretty spot on.