Avantgarde Trio - Factory visit

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bonzo

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So last month had visited the Avantgarde factory in Frankfurt. The have a big room built to the Golden ratio, but no other treatment except basic carpets, normal power and cables, no isolation. The room is big because it houses all their speakers, but to listen to a particular speaker, you sit at a normal distance of about 12 feet. They use an esoteric CD player with their own class A SS amps.

Review in one sentence: I have never been a fan of the duos and the smaller ones - in fact, I dislike them - however, the Trios with the bass horns is the best set up I have heard (Western electrics aside)

Never heard a 2-ch system where bass flows so easily, transients are so awesome, there is such wide scale from side to side, top to bottom, with loads of depth from the front to the back, and pinpoint imaging and micro detail. Best rendition of orchestra, it does large scale pieces like Mahler 2, Rachmaninoff Symphonic dances, etc flawlessly. Sound just floats from the bass horns. Excellent off axis, and you can throw anything at them, including rock, and they just sit there staring at you and play it. The separation and 3d is magical.

There is one thing though - the tonality of the mids is a bit not quite there. It is not as good as some other speakers. The mids come out into the room, but the texture or the tone, some other horns and panels do it better. However, while that might sound harsh while reading, it is ok for me as overall it's still the best presentation of full symphony I heard. And a good TT or Lampi + mooks (mandatory wording in all my posts) might better that. But having checked with others, those who didn't like them, cited the tonality as the reason. For others it was a dream speaker. So that's the caveat

After that I went to Monaco where another dealer has the Trios with the bass horns in a smaller room, his living room, with an Oppo and Tom Evans amps. This is as basic as you are going to get. Well, it sounded equally good, and his room dimensions are W 4.9m X L6.3m. Distance between Trios = 2.28m between insides, 3.9 between outsides. You get the soundstage and width more than any planar that I have heard, with the dynamics of a horn, with Sota bass. You can play organ music easily.
 

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One doesn't need to play the 6 basshorns, that is only for style. Two are sufficient. The two small white speakers you see near the basshorns are the Zeros. For such small speakers, extremely powerful, and active. They are planning to make the Trios optionally active as well, and add DRC
 
Awesome review of awesome speakers. I reckon my next speakers will be Avantgarde. Not sure - couldn't be more opposite to the 'Logans.

You commented on midrange tonality. How is the upper and lower coloration and purity. Midrange purity is something I value with the 'Logans.

When I last heard Avantgardes (Duo G1, but I couldn't beat them down low enough) the lack of coloration across the whole spectrum was something I didn't know if I could handle long-term. Not sure. But I agree with all else you posted.
 
Awesome review of awesome speakers. I reckon my next speakers will be Avantgarde. Not sure - couldn't be more opposite to the 'Logans.

You commented on midrange tonality. How is the upper and lower coloration and purity. Midrange purity is something I value with the 'Logans.

When I last heard Avantgardes (Duo G1, but I couldn't beat them down low enough) the lack of coloration across the whole spectrum was something I didn't know if I could handle long-term. Not sure. But I agree with all else you posted.

I would never go for a duo, even the duo omega (the biggest duo of the range) over a ML Montis/Summit. I just don't like them, heard them multiple times at close quarters in different rooms and set ups now. They can get too harsh, and the bass is way off from the mids, not to mention the huge price difference. It's only Trio that I recommend. And for those who are playing only vocals and chamber, not full symphony, don't need the Trios with the basshorns. Also for the Trio set up you need that width I mentioned, and money. So, if you are not going for the Trio set up, stick to Logans, or get an used pair of modded Analysis Audio from the US, or get the MBL 116f if you value off axis. At least, that's what I would do.

Edit: Or ask Justin to spec Apogees for you ;)
 
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I wasn't too impressed with the Trios at Munich 2014 - much smaller room.

However, at Munich 2011 I thought the Trio setup in the main AG room was the most accurate sounding horn replay system I have ever heard. Sure the GIP and WEs at 2011 were awesome, but accurate? No way.

2011 was using AG solid state amps and an Audio Aero Fontaine. I reckon adding "tone" with some nice tube amps would be no problem.

I think, space provided, and with some respect paid to accuracy, the Trios have to be close to if not the most convincing hi-fi replay speakers I have ever heard. Vox Olympians are no where near as capable IMHO.

That said I have never heard any huge planar magnetic systems such as Apogee Full Range or Grand. Updating those with 2015 materials/components and sensible frame bracing could well produce stellar performers. We'll never know I suspect.
 
I think the dimensions I provided are close to fine. Bigger than that is a bonus. I have heard people happy with them in 25 and 30 sq m room. I didn't like them in Munich either but in Munich rooms I have hardly liked anything
 
Actually the speaker itself isn't that big, but the basshorms are quite large.

In the main AG room you can space them well apart with basshorns in between. That gave a realistic "the band is actually on the stage" presentation i.e. a really full sounding lifelike sound stage.

They were awesome in there. Really. Hard to imagine them doing better.
 
Yes, but if you have 2m between them, you can still fit the bass horns in and they do fine. Width between walls should be 4m, and the depth to listener doesn't matter so much. They go into the corners, but you don't want a square room, so front to back wall should be, say 6m
 
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Can't agree with that. For £100 odd K I would want a decent sized room and a lot of space between the horns to give the "band on stage" effect I was talking about. That's a major part of what they can do for me.

The reason Trios win over Duos is obvious. The bass horn has similar characteristics to the higher range drive units. Use a different tech for the bass and it gets too compromised to be excellent. Without the basshorns I am not sure if they'd go low enough though. Probably not. You need the whole skiboodle really.

I still think recent Duos are good though, but for me the bass integration, while better than Acapellas, would always be an issue to an extent.

Speakers that mix drive unit technology always have some sort of issue I think. Mind you even those that don't can have issues too:D Let's face it - everything has some sort of issue. Bummer:)
 
Unlike with boxes and panels, I have never heard a compromised, or one model lower, version of a full range horn sound remotely good. With horns go all out or not at all, with the brand of your choice. No two way horns, please
 
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One doesn't need to play the 6 basshorns, that is only for style. Two are sufficient. The two small white speakers you see near the basshorns are the Zeros. For such small speakers, extremely powerful, and active. They are planning to make the Trios optionally active as well, and add DRC
A local Trio owner recently had a professional Trinnov install and was blown away by the sound. I'm waiting to see if an invitation to hear his setup can be arranged.....
 
What subs does he have, and room size? Also, what music does he listen to?
 
What subs does he have, and room size? Also, what music does he listen to?

Don't know X 3, and the guy doesn't post @ any AV forum AFAIK. If I can arrange a visit, I'll let you know.

Another Trio owner, Blazar over @ AVS, has posted that he has an Altitude O/O. IIRC his gear/room is public knowledge.
 
I don't agree Kedar, although I understand you may feel that way. The horns are the polar-opposite of 'stats. k

But when I've heard them, they have been the most dynamic, realistic sounding speakers out there. Sure, there was some coloration and they lacked absolute accuracy, but I felt they more than made up for that.



They can get too harsh, and the bass is way off from the mids,

Maybe they just need a Mook or two?
 
One mega problem (the mega problem) of horn hybrids is the dispersion characteristics of the horn just don't get on well with cone drivers.
 
Impossible to play full symphony out crossover music on a two way. Also in two way they stretch the horn range to compromise for not having a driver makes the horn harsher. Adam it won't be a problem if you listen to Diana krall
 
One mega problem (the mega problem) of horn hybrids is the dispersion characteristics of the horn just don't get on well with cone drivers.

Same problem with ES hybrids. More of a problem with line array/point source.
 
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