Amplifier Advice / Thoughts

[Audiblemayhem]

I just purchased a used pair of ML Theos speakers. I’ve never owned or tried to power 4 ohm speakers. I am about to purchase a used Esoteric A-03 which is 100w into 4 ohms pure class A. Can anyone offer some advice as to how this amp might perform or offer advice on what you would consider a better choice for $4,000.

 

[DanR]

I can’t speak to Esoteric amps but I do know they make a high quality product. The big thing to look at with buying a used class A amp is the age and if known the hours of use on it this I can speak to. I was in the same boat you’re in a while back when I bought my amp to power my Odysseys and I ended up buying a used class A amp as well and for that same figure $4000. What you have to understand about Class A amps like this is once they get to be 20 years old and I don’t know what year the amp in question is, they will need to be at least checked over completely by a competent shop, and at 20 years of service more likely than not they at least need to be recapped. Those big capacitors wear out due to the heat produced by a Class A amp. It’s the price you pay for that beautiful sound they put out with Logans. I ended up buying a Krell KSA100 MKII which is just over 40 years old right now, but it was serviced by a very competent shop out in LA (GeorgeMeyer Sound) and it was completely gone thru and brought back to original specs which entailed all new capacitors, any resistors that didn’t measure within spec which were imagine this in the high heat areas and all cleaned up. So for the price I paid I have an absolutely beautiful example of DAgastiino’s early work and as old as it is there isn’t one mark on this amp which in itself is amazing. So as far as the beauty of an Esoteric there if it checks out and you can handle the heat produced by a Class A amp it should make beautiful music with those Logans

 

[DanR]

I can’t speak to Esoteric amps but I do know they make a high quality product. The big thing to look at with buying a used class A amp is the age and if known the hours of use on it this I can speak to. I was in the same boat you’re in a while back when I bought my amp to power my Odysseys and I ended up buying a used class A amp as well and for that same figure $4000. What you have to understand about Class A amps like this is once they get to be 20 years old and I don’t know what year the amp in question is, they will need to be at least checked over completely by a competent shop, and at 20 years of service more likely than not they at least need to be recapped. Those big capacitors wear out due to the heat produced by a Class A amp. It’s the price you pay for that beautiful sound they put out with Logans. I ended up buying a Krell KSA100 MKII which is just over 40 years old right now, but it was serviced by a very competent shop out in LA (GeorgeMeyer Sound) and it was completely gone thru and brought back to original specs which entailed all new capacitors, any resistors that didn’t measure within spec which were imagine this in the high heat areas and all cleaned up. So for the price I paid I have an absolutely beautiful example of DAgastiino’s early work and as old as it is there isn’t one mark on this amp which in itself is amazing. So as far as the beauty of an Esoteric there if it checks out and you can handle the heat produced by a Class A amp it should make beautiful music with those Logans

I did a search on this amp and it appears it came out in 2010 so it should be about 13 years old. The reviews I looked at showed a new price of $14,000 USD so man $4000 sure is a fraction of that

 

[ttocs]

I agree with everything @DanR said.

You may want to consider this though. If a used amp is $4000 and might need some work, you might want to look at some demo amps which are sold as new and have a warranty.

I know of a local dealer who routinely offers demo amps for steep discounts. Some amps that came up recently included a Krell DUO 300 XD Class A Amp, which is the model I happen to have and is great, and I think the price came down to $7250 when it was sold. So this was less than half the retail price.

You may consider contacting Shawn Millin of DaVinci Media who advertises here at MLO. He has demo units for sale from time to time also.

My point being that if the cost of servicing is $1000 to $2000 for an amp that has no warranty, then paying just a bit more would get you a warranty and an "almost new" amp with very few hours on it.

 

[Audiblemayhem]

Thanks for the advice! Once I heard this amp I fell in love with it. When I found one for $4,000 without a nick on it I had to have it. I bought it this afternoon. I will have it checked out in a few years. Yes… it’s only 10 years old. You think it will have any issues powering the Theos?

 

[Nuri58]

I think it depends on the size of your room and how loud you your preferred listning level is. The sensitivity of the Theos is 90dB so quite fair. Recomended amp power 20 to 400w so in that respect it seems fine not least since it's class A - but rock concert SPL may not be there unless your room is small. Can you audit it by any chance just to make sure?

 

[Robert D]

I think it depends on the size of your room and how loud you your preferred listning level is. The sensitivity of the Theos is 90dB so quite fair. Recomended amp power 20 to 400w so in that respect it seems fine not least since it's class A - but rock concert SPL may not be there unless your room is small. Can you audit it by any chance just to make sure?

I know with my Aragon amp that's 200 watts, I'd definitely not want less power than it's 200 watts at 8 ohm, 400 at 4 ohm. My room is roughly 20x19 and open on one side to the kitchen, so lots of room.
That's on Prodigy speakers. Any less power and the volume would have to be turned up to 80 or more on my Marantz I bet. Right now I'm on 70.

 

[Dennis Chern]

I just purchased a used pair of ML Theos speakers. I’ve never owned or tried to power 4 ohm speakers. I am about to purchase a used Esoteric A-03 which is 100w into 4 ohms pure class A. Can anyone offer some advice as to how this amp might perform or offer advice on what you would consider a better choice for $4,000. View attachment 24551

 

[Dennis Chern]

I just purchased a used pair of ML Theos speakers. I’ve never owned or tried to power 4 ohm speakers. I am about to purchase a used Esoteric A-03 which is 100w into 4 ohms pure class A. Can anyone offer some advice as to how this amp might perform or offer advice on what you would consider a better choice for $4,000. View attachment 24551

if that amp is working, it will be very good on your speakers. if it truly is 100 watts class A, it will be all you need to max out the output of the speakers .To expect a legit answer to the question of what else would $4000. get you that might be better, w/o a major proper qulifcation process, is a mistake.

 

[DanR]

I agree with everything @DanR said.

You may want to consider this though. If a used amp is $4000 and might need some work, you might want to look at some demo amps which are sold as new and have a warranty.

I know of a local dealer who routinely offers demo amps for steep discounts. Some amps that came up recently included a Krell DUO 300 XD Class A Amp, which is the model I happen to have and is great, and I think the price came down to $7250 when it was sold. So this was less than half the retail price.

You may consider contacting Shawn Millin of DaVinci Media who advertises here at MLO. He has demo units for sale from time to time also.

My point being that if the cost of servicing is $1000 to $2000 for an amp that has no warranty, then paying just a bit more would get you a warranty and an "almost new" amp with very few hours on it.

All excellent advice!

 

[DanR]

I know with my Aragon amp that's 200 watts, I'd definitely not want less power than it's 200 watts at 8 ohm, 400 at 4 ohm. My room is roughly 20x19 and open on one side to the kitchen, so lots of room.
That's on Prodigy speakers. Any less power and the volume would have to be turned up to 80 or more on my Marantz I bet. Right now I'm on 70.

I totally agree with everything said here too. My Krell does 200 watts into 4 ohms and I wouldn’t want anything less on my Odysseys either.

 

[DanR]

if that amp is working, it will be very good on your speakers. if it truly is 100 watts class A, it will be all you need to max out the output of the speakers .To expect a legit answer to the question of what else would $4000. get you that might be better, w/o a major proper qulifcation process, is a mistake.

Reading some of the reviews on this amp the 50 watts at 8 ohms is very conservative I forget which review it was but their testing showed an actual 77 watts at 8 ohms so it should also be a bit more than 100 at 4 ohms, it’s a quality piece of equipment. And if nothing else if it isn’t enough oomph for the Theos he should be able to sell it for at least what he paid for it and try something else, that’s the beauty of the used market.

 

[Robert D]

Reading some of the reviews on this amp the 50 watts at 8 ohms is very conservative I forget which review it was but their testing showed an actual 77 watts at 8 ohms so it should also be a bit more than 100 at 4 ohms, it’s a quality piece of equipment. And if nothing else if it isn’t enough oomph for the Theos he should be able to sell it for at least what he paid for it and try something else, that’s the beauty of the used market.

Similar to used cars these days! Prices are so high on used cars that we just decided to buy a brand new Mazda for my daughter rather than getting a used car like I would have probably done in the past.

 

[Audiblemayhem]

Oh wow! I just cried a little. Hooked up the Esoteric A-03 and it’s AMAZING! I’ve never heard bass like this before! Replacing an LSA WARP 1. The A-03 gives me the chills! Check out Heroes by Peter Gabriel on your system! This whole system is used. Cost... $10K. Amazing whats available on the used market! Martin Logan Theos speakers, REL S510 sub, Benchmark LA4 pre, Topping DE90 DAC. The A-03 can drive the Theos well beyond the threshold of live concert volume levels. No problem!

 

[DanR]

Oh wow! I just cried a little. Hooked up the Esoteric A-03 and it’s AMAZING! I’ve never heard bass like this before! Replacing an LSA WARP 1. The A-03 gives me the chills! Check out Heroes by Peter Gabriel on your system! This whole system is used. Cost... $10K. Amazing whats available on the used market! Martin Logan Theos speakers, REL S510 sub, Benchmark LA4 pre, Topping DE90 DAC. The A-03 can drive the Theos well beyond the threshold of live concert volume levels. No problem! View attachment 24556

That’s awesome!! I love hearing people put together a nice system like yours from the used market. My TT (Rega RP 8) phono pre (Allnic H-1201), Amp (Krell KSA-100 MK II) andmy Logans (Odysseys) are all from the used market and represent a savings of savings in the thousands. I like the Benchmark gear as well I have a DAC3 HGC for my digital side, bought that new though. Enjoy that equipment man!

 

[Nuri58]

All doubts vanished then and great to hear you got the system of your dream and even for a good bargin.

 

[twich54]

very nicely done, Congrats !