Amp for VANTAGE?

[Jazzplayer]

I¨ll second nsgarch opinion, tube amps bring out more in the ML´s. I also did a comparison of the Mac MA2275 tube integrated, which is similar to the MC275, and 400 W Mac ss monoblocks at a dealer (not driving logans, but low impedance speakers of a different brand) and the MA2275 beat the hell out of the ss amp and preamp, at several times the cost!. The mc275 and a mac tube preamp should be even better. For ss I would look at other brands than Mac, but their tube stuff is great. Even in Europe, it is still a good value with the inflated prices over here. I would also look at some of the european tube amps, like T+A, Unison Research, Pathos, even the Quad II 40w version. Musical Fidelity is also relatively competitively priced in europe and may be a good option. All though I have not heard Densen myself with ML, people whose opinion I respect claim it is not a good match. If you can try MBL that would be interesting, I tried to get a 7008 for audition, but it just got too complicated, as I had to use a dealer in Sweden. American products are, unfortunately, in general terribly overpriced over here.
Best Regards
Svein
Norway

 

[rhom]

What is everyone running for watts (a good wpc for) Vantages?
Right now I am using a Sony AVR with 120 wpcx7, but I keep hearing that a new amp would be an incredible upgrade.

Thanks, Lee

Hi Lee,

My experience with the Vantages' built-in powered subs has been that it is possible to drive them with a lot less power than I first anticipated. My room is 22'(w) x 15' and 50-60 watts drive my Vanatages to very loud levels without clipping. I listen to just about everything, vocals, jazz, rock, pop & classical music. Most of the watts in full range systems are used in bass reproduction. Having powered subs makes a huge difference. You can then choose to buy fewer, but very high quality watts if you wish. Also, my experience is that tube amps drive MLs really well and generally seem more powerful on MLs than a SS amp of the same output rating.

Regarding upgrading, now that you have top notch speakers my experience is to invest in an excellent source. Like an excellent CD player or TT/arm/cartridge. Can't make up for lost material downstream. I've been test-driving new CDPs in my system right now. All of the latest units make a big difference in the overall performance of my system. Gonna buy a new one soon.

Best of luck!

Rick

 

[Kaboomnash]

Thanks, I would love to check out the McIntosh MC275 more closely.

I would really love to try a Pathos Logos! But, would have to buy it from Audiogon since a new one is $5K.

No one has any info on Parasound,, good or bad?

Lee

 

[eknuds01]

Parasound = Nice

 

[David Matz]

For ss I would look at other brands than Mac, but their tube stuff is great. Best Regards
Svein
Norway

I respectfully disagree. When the SS Mac MC402 throws 400 watts per channel on your Logans, they are totally at ease to do what they were designed to do. It's the best amp driving the Logans I personally have heard.

Another great choice is Bryston 14 B SST.

I think even the valve afficionados would be impressed with either Mac MC402 or Bryston 14 B SST. In fact, I would love to see some blind tests.

Logans love a lot of power, but quality power. Preferably you want both, and Mac SS does that very well.

 

[nsgarch]

Logans love a lot of power, but quality power. Preferably you want both, and Mac SS does that very well.

I agree if you're referring to the hybrid Logans, but the Summits and Vantages don't require that much power just to drive their panels. That's why tube amps are such a nice option with these speakers, IMO.

 

[paulo m]

I¨ll second nsgarch opinion, tube amps bring out more in the ML´s. I also did a comparison of the Mac MA2275 tube integrated, which is similar to the MC275, and 400 W Mac ss monoblocks at a dealer (not driving logans, but low impedance speakers of a different brand) and the MA2275 beat the hell out of the ss amp and preamp, at several times the cost!. The mc275 and a mac tube preamp should be even better.

Totally true, I did an audition a few months ago of the 2275 tube integrated driving Vantages and that combo just trounced all other ss Macs I heard all the way up to the 501 monoblocks. Tubes is the way to go, and Mac gives you a reasonably priced good amp.

For ss I would look at other brands than Mac, but their tube stuff is great. Even in Europe, it is still a good value with the inflated prices over here. I would also look at some of the european tube amps, like T+A, Unison Research, Pathos, even the Quad II 40w version.

Pathos are hybrids, though. This actually is probably the best bang for the buck alternative--get a hybrid integrated.

Musical Fidelity is also relatively competitively priced in europe and may be a good option.

FWIW, I didn't like MF with Logans. When I bought my Vantages, the very first audition at the dealer was with a MF integrated. Not gratingly unpleasant, but nothing groundbreaking either. The dealer immediately swapped the MF with the Pathos Classic One, and a veil seemed to have been lifted from the music. I went for the Logos (more power, more transparency), but the Classic One would have been my choice if I had a tight budget.

 

[paulo m]

Thanks, I would love to check out the McIntosh MC275 more closely.

I would really love to try a Pathos Logos! But, would have to buy it from Audiogon since a new one is $5K.

No one has any info on Parasound,, good or bad?

Lee

Parasound should be good from what I read--there was a show where Martin Logan showcased their Summit speakers with the Parasound monoblocks. There are also mods you can have done by certain modders to improve the sonics.

I will probably be selling my Pathos Logos within 6 months (upgrading to amps in a whole 'nother league soon ). I'll be sure to post that announcement here first.

 

[Kaboomnash]

Thanks paulo, I will be watching for the pathos listing. I think the Logos looks like a piece of artwork, hope I am impressed as much sonically.

I have written down alot of the recommended model numbers and will be doing more reading reviews.

Thanks, Lee

 

[paulo m]

Thanks paulo, I will be watching for the pathos listing. I think the Logos looks like a piece of artwork, hope I am impressed as much sonically.

I have written down alot of the recommended model numbers and will be doing more reading reviews.

Thanks, Lee

You know, I don't want to sound like a salesman here, but in my quest for truly outstanding amplification, I've done half a dozen serious auditions in the past couple of weeks, all of them with equipment a few notches above the Logos (see below for further comments), and one thing that became clear is that this little integrated is incredibly musical and pleasurable once you know it deeply and objectively compare it against its higher pedigreed brethren (i.e. don't get hung up on the negatives and the differences, focus on the similarities). It probably delivers 80% of what amplification costing as much as 6 times its price can deliver, once you find a good source and cabling to match.

The auditions I made in the past couple of weeks were the following. I spent at least an hour with each system, across 4 different dealers and reasonably spaced across two weeks to avoid saturation and "sensory overload":

• VTL MB-450s, 6.5 pre, Esoteric X-03 SE CDP, JM Labs Alto Utopias. Contrasting with an earlier audition I did driving the Magico V3, there was some loss of resolution and the sound was heavy and somewhat sluggish.
• CJ LP-70, CT5 pre, Esoteric X-03 SE CDP, JM Labs Alto Utopias. A variant of the combination above, with smoother sound, but too "background music"-sounding.
• Nagra PMA, PL-L pre, Nagra CDP, Maggies 20.1. Bad, bad, bad. The Maggies are capable of much much more. I guess I am not a fan of Nagra. Or perhaps Nagra and Maggies is not a happy combination.
• ARC HD220, Ref 3 pre, Ref CD7, Hansen King V2. Fantastic sound. The HD220 is noticeably bright, with certain notes really piercing your ears. Not a fan of big sci-fi speakers, but these were really good (at $74k a pair, they better be--and are).
• Mark Levinson 33 monos, 32 pre, EMM Labs transport + DAC, Wilson Watt/Puppies 8. Ah the Levinson sound. I once truly loved it (ML 23.5); not anymore. Resolution was great, everything was under control. Pity the midrange lacked some magic and sounded just a tiny bit washed out. Overall the sound was on the cold side. I can see why the "too polite sounding" epithet is thrown at these. Would probably benefit from a warmer-sounding source.
• Spectral DMA-250, DMC-30SL pre, EMM Labs transport + DAC, Wilson Watt/Puppies 8. Outstanding resolution. Much airier than the Levinson combo. Same kind of problems in the midrange, slight washing out and also on the cold side. With a warmer-sounding source it could conceivably be made to sound outstandingly good.
• ARC Ref 210s, Ref 3 pre, Ref CD7, Vandersteen 5A. Overall, the best of the bunch. Timbrally and harmonically great. Resolution, stage, air--had them all. The room had a couple of bad resonances (125 Hz, and somewhere in the midrange), all solvable with tweaking and positioning (speakers didn't have any toe-in and weren't calibrated for the room). Reminded me of everything I liked about the earlier audition with the HD220 and the Hansens, except no piercing notes. If I had to write a check now, it would be for the Ref 210 and Ref 3.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I suppose I am seconding the thoughts on Parasound. I am using a HCA-3500A to drive my Vantages to excellent effect. This amp is truly a brute with dual mono construction down to dual IEC outlets. The Parasound Halo JC-1 monoblocks are awesome as well. I would recommend any of the older John Curl designed regular Parasounds as well as the current Halo line. Needless to say, there are a litany of other great amps out there as well.
Cheers,
Mark

 

[timm]

Other brands:

Audio Research (already mentioned), Sunfire (I have the Symphonic Reference and love it), Plinius (the amp Twich54 has is awesome!), Classe, Rotel (outstanding bang for the buck), Anthem, Conrad Johnson, etc. The price range is all over the place. Some people really like Outlaw Audio and they have a reputation for delivering great equipment at a very reasonable price.

There are a ton of really great solid state amps out there. If you aren't afraid to purchase used equipment, you'll have even more options.

Re: the Symphonic Reference.... Did you compare it to other Sunfire products - if so - what were the diffs between them? I have a sunfire sig grand in bi-amped mode.....

 

[eknuds01]

I have not had a direct comparison between the Sunfire Symphonic reference and other sunfire products. I got the amp through Cherian and perhaps he could add to this discussion. Maybe he listened to other sunfire amps. JonFo uses some sunfire amps, too, and perhaps he's listened to more than one model.

I drove my Aerius i speakers with an old Yamaha integrated amp (maybe 75 Wpc) and when I got the sunfire I used the Yammy has the pre-amp. The sunfire made a nice difference, particularly with the bass-much more solid. I also felt that the soundstage was widened. I recently got an ARC LS2 Mkii tube pre-amp, and the synergy with the sunfire is quite nice. Dave (twich54) and Dan (DTB300) are coming over this weekend to check out my system. I hope they will give me a postive review! :music:

I wish I could give you more feedback here, but I can't give you too much detail of the symphonic reference vs the other multichannel or stereo amps.

best,
Erik

 

[timm]

I like the sunfire amps... personally. I used to think there was something out there that was just going to blow me away... and I have yet to find it. I originally compared my sunfire to a rotel... and the sunfire literally blew its doors off... I wasn't used to hearing such a huge diff with amps... This was quite noticeable though. I know some of the guys have the Pass/Plinius... I have yet to hear them - but they are in a different league money wise - I do believe.... and I am happy with what I have...

 

[Kaboomnash]

I finally decided on a Pass Labs X-250 for my Vantages.
I have paid in full and will be home in sixteen days to hook it up,, I will let you know how it goes.

Lee

 

[Dragonfly]

Kaboomnash,
Good choice.:rocker:

 

[jmschnur]

Wich model from Bryston are you using?

This with eac ripped CDs to FLAC and Foobar is working very welll indeed.

"The Bryston 4B SST is something of a legend among audio amplifiers. As our most popular it has attained international status as an amplifier suitable for the finest and most sophisticated sound systems. Whatever the venue, be it a recording studio stage, a broadcast facility, a home theater installation, or a state-of-the-art stereo system, Bryston has continued to be the number one choice. The 4B SST is a pure dual mono design and offers 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 with over 1000 watts available in bridged mode.



BRYSTON SST FEATURES:

Membrane Power Switch
Soft start circuit on power up
Multiple filter capacitance per channel
Selectable inputs for balanced or single ended (RCA) connectors
Polarity Switch (0 or 180 degrees) on each channel (6B & 9B only)
Remote 12 Volt power trigger input with delayed output feature
Selectable gain settings
Optional 17" Faceplate (no handles) or 19 inch rack mount (with handles) available.
Optional Silver or Black Faceplate Available"

 

[edwinr]

I finally decided on a Pass Labs X-250 for my Vantages.
I have paid in full and will be home in sixteen days to hook it up,, I will let you know how it goes.

Lee

You will not be disappointed. You will need at least 100 hours before the amplifier settles in...

 

[twich54]

You will not be disappointed. You will need at least 100 hours before the amplifier settles in...

I would hope not, he has settled on a 250 not a 250.5, therefore it should already be 'settled in', assuming it is used and not one that is still new in the box.

 

[Kaboomnash]

I would hope not, he has settled on a 250 not a 250.5, therefore it should already be 'settled in', assuming it is used and not one that is still new in the box.

True, it is a Pass Labs "Factory Reconditioned" X-250 model with a one year warranty. I have factory certification that everything internally has been gone over and given a clean bill of health. The exterior is equally flawless. Not bad for $2450 shipped and insured.

I will see how the Pass performs, still like the thought of a Pathos Logos or a Plinius if I decide to later change out.

Lee