All You Martin Logan Experts - C2/FX2 or Motif/FX. What to Do?

[Rmichnow]

Hi, my name is Rob and I'm planning my new Home Theater. Love movies/sports, however, also will enjoy a great listening session.

I'm considering pulling the trigger on EM ESLs, albeit nervous about off-axis listening due to 1 bad demo experience. The C2 and FX2 fit perfectly in my budget, however, I can extend and upgrade the center to the Motif, as well as, downgrade the surrounds to the FX.

It was easy to listen to the ESLs at a number of places, however, nobody is demoing the centers and surrounds. I've asked and nobody willing to pull them out of stock for a listen, if they even have stock. At a disadvantage here and need your help.

Center Channel speaker is the critical component to me and am looking for very clear dialogue, wide soundstage and subtleties not captured by a normal center speaker. Most of the time I listen at moderate to low volume, due to a peaceful and considerate household, thus, the center speaker needs to exhibit performance when the volume is turned down.

What are the pros and cons of these 2 different combinations of center/surrounds, other than money? Will the Motif outperform the C2 for my objectives or is it too close to call? How much do I lose with surrounds by downgrading to FX (surrounds will be approx. 6' ft behind listening position)?

All your help is appreciated.

 

[roberto]

Hola Rob. I like better the Motif and FX with your Electromotions. It is better to have all electrostatic at front. The rears are only for effects sound, and not for music. The dialog on the Motif ( I am a Motif user ) is very, very good to my ears. Happy listening!

 

[shakham]

The center is THE most important speaker in HT. I'm with Roberto on this one, I'd go for the Motif over the C2.

For the rears though, folks say electrostat rears blend better with electrostats up front. I'm running a pair of Aerius-I but am struggling with maybe swapping them out for the FX or FX2. My issue is more about space though.

If anybody has personally tested the 2 options...maybe they can chime in.

 

[tsv_1]

Hi Rob... sorry I can't speak to the pros/cons of the speakers you're considering (having not heard them)... but just jumping in here to say "Welcome aboard" and I wish you a pleasant HT journey as you assemble your system.

Cheers

 

[daniel]

The center is THE most important speaker in HT.

I have to disagree with this one. It is important if and only if your listening space spread wider than the space occupied by your front stereo speakers.

It's not my case. I don't need a center speaker.

If it was true that it was the most important, than someone could decide to buy only that center channel and live happy with it. Don't know nobody who would take that path.

 

[projectormovielover]

I have to disagree with this one. It is important if and only if your listening space spread wider than the space occupied by your front stereo speakers.

It's not my case. I don't need a center speaker.

If it was true that it was the most important, than someone could decide to buy only that center channel and live happy with it. Don't know nobody who would take that path.

Why would anyone buy just a center ch?

The center is the most in a HT rig = Home theater! The center speaker will be the most important decision the op will make as he needs clarity at low volume. If you want to hear the sound the way the engineer's have encoded it then you must have a center period. I was deciding between the motif and matinee and chose the latter because there was not muich of a diff but the stage really gave me it all with the least watts.

Martin Logan center ch all have great clarity when at low volume compared to some other brands. I had a polk csi5 and it was great but when it moved in the lil gaming room I have I found it disturbed the wife through the wall when she read books at night. I replaced that one with a ML encore and it has way better clarity but it just was not as dynamic when you compare the encores 4 inch woofers to the csi5 6 1/2's . I think the C2 center has great off axis wide listening and will be best if you have alot of guests who want to hear a movie so it would be a good cheaper alternative to the stage if you decide to go with electromotions up front

The fx2 and fx are awesome for surround duty with the woofer being amed at you yet the folded motion tweeters are off axis of the listening position like a dipole. To me this is the best of both worlds as you hear exactly where the sounds coming from(woofer) yet you get that great sense of depth and space like the dipoles give. I think you are building a killer ht system and the best thing is that you can go 2 ch for music and have that fine electrostatic signature

 

[Rmichnow]

Hola Roberto, Thank you for the feedback on the Motif. Do you find the Motif provides a wide soundstage that you need?

Shakham, sounds like a similar dilemma as well, except with the surrounds. Somewhere along the line, I figured I need to stay within budget. I wish I could place ESLs all around me.

tsv_1, thanks for the welcome. Selecting speakers is certainly an interesting journey. I'm attempting to listen to as many speakers as possible. So far, the ESLs have given me the most enjoyment out of all my demos.

daniel, interesting that you bring up use of your left and right to cover the area, instead of employing a center. I was at Stereo Exchange in NYC a few weeks ago and the Sales Person was selling me on the same concept. He also believed that 2 channels without the center would give you the most enjoyment, regardless of movies or music.

projectormovielover, I'm with you on this one. Searching for a killer HT system, however, not at reference level sound with extreme dynamics capabilities. I believe a great music speaker can also be a great movie speaker and needs to perform for micro dynamics, as well as, at moderate to low volume levels, without loss of detail. You bring up an interesting point about the C2's ability to cover a wide, off-axis stage. Do you think the C2 does this better than the electrostat, thus, an advantage for the C2 over the Motif?

Thank you everybody for your help.

 

[roberto]

Wide sound stage? No... it is ment for dialog, and my Motif is under my 60" Plasma. Fo movies, it is just right!, and it is crystal clear, with the right amount of timbre for voices. My CLXs are the ones that give me the stage. Happy listening!

 

[projectormovielover]

Searching for a killer HT system, however, not at reference level sound with extreme dynamics capabilities. I believe a great music speaker can also be a great movie speaker and needs to perform for micro dynamics, as well as, at moderate to low volume levels, without loss of detail. You bring up an interesting point about the C2's ability to cover a wide, off-axis stage. Do you think the C2 does this better than the electrostat, thus, an advantage for the C2 over the Motif?

Thank you everybody for your help.

My matinee center has less range when standing so I'm sure the motif would stack up the same as the C2. I also found the C2 to have bigger sweetspot for how it sounds

Even though the folded motion driver supposedly has a narrower soundstage than a conventional tweeter, I never found this to be the case when I have heard it. I have 2 matinee's and I use them for a 2ch rig at the moment. They are more accurate for ambient music but to me the C2 sounds great and for the dynamic midbass that is used in all exciting action type of movies. I call it a hardcore movie speaker more than I would a musical one due to its great bass and good range of clarity across the room

 

[dmusoke]

Wide sound stage? No... it is ment for dialog, and my Motif is under my 60" Plasma. Fo movies, it is just right!, and it is crystal clear, with the right amount of timbre for voices. My CLXs are the ones that give me the stage. Happy listening!

Roberto ... this almost sounds too good to be true! You are pairing the CLX's with the Motif and they play well with each other? I'd find that suprising(but then again, i acknowledge your audio expertise on this forum:rocker... I just ordered the Stage in hopes that it plays well with my Spires.

 

[roberto]

Well, I had both, the Stage and the Motif in my room. The difference was not a big deal. I liked both very much and I chose the Motif, and with the difference in the price, I bought more music and DVDs. My speakers are, the CLXs, Motif and for rears, 2 Motion 4. My room is very small, and I do like what I listen, I am in heaven! Happy listening!

 

[dmusoke]

Well, I had both, the Stage and the Motif in my room. The difference was not a big deal. I liked both very much and I chose the Motif, and with the difference in the price, I bought more music and DVDs. My speakers are, the CLXs, Motif and for rears, 2 Motion 4. My room is very small, and I do like what I listen, I am in heaven! Happy listening!

Sweet setup Roberto!

 

[roberto]

This pic was taken about six months ago. Now I have a 60" and a Bel Canto CD-2 as transport, and a Benchmark DAC-1 as processor. This set up is for stereo only, and the Oppo for 5.1, using the Onkyo Pro as processor. I will up date my system pics soon... happy listening and trust your ears.

 

[shakham]

Hola Roberto, Thank you for the feedback on the Motif. Do you find the Motif provides a wide soundstage that you need?

Shakham, sounds like a similar dilemma as well, except with the surrounds. Somewhere along the line, I figured I need to stay within budget. I wish I could place ESLs all around me.

tsv_1, thanks for the welcome. Selecting speakers is certainly an interesting journey. I'm attempting to listen to as many speakers as possible. So far, the ESLs have given me the most enjoyment out of all my demos.

daniel, interesting that you bring up use of your left and right to cover the area, instead of employing a center. I was at Stereo Exchange in NYC a few weeks ago and the Sales Person was selling me on the same concept. He also believed that 2 channels without the center would give you the most enjoyment, regardless of movies or music.

projectormovielover, I'm with you on this one. Searching for a killer HT system, however, not at reference level sound with extreme dynamics capabilities. I believe a great music speaker can also be a great movie speaker and needs to perform for micro dynamics, as well as, at moderate to low volume levels, without loss of detail. You bring up an interesting point about the C2's ability to cover a wide, off-axis stage. Do you think the C2 does this better than the electrostat, thus, an advantage for the C2 over the Motif?

Thank you everybody for your help.

You can always get a cheaper used ML center channel. For the rears, I would think a used pair of Sources would do pretty well..no?

 

[Rmichnow]

Roberto, incredible setup you have. Hope you're enjoying your 60" display. My use of term "soundstage" was incorrect. I meant to ask if the dialogue from the Motif was wide enough.

Projectormovielover, great information on the C2. I was concerned about the C2 based on a Sound and Vision magazine review of the Electro Motion series. They slipped in a negative comment about the C2. So much for magazine reviewers. I trust your feedback a lot more than a magazine.

Shakham, I see you're in Piscataway. I'm slightly up the road from you. I reside in Scotch Plains. I try to make each Rutgers football game in Piscataway.

 

[Boris]

Sorry about the bump but what did you end up going with? I'm in almost the same boat as you are now and can't decide between the FX or FX2 to go with my ESLs and C2. Leaning towards the FX now to save some cash but I haven't heard either of them yet.

 

[Rmichnow]

Boris, sorry for the late reply. I've not yet made my decision. Still auditioning speakers. Where I'm struggling is how much off-axis listening will I do and how that affects the speakers that I purchase.

 

[DaveS0811]

Well, don't make the same mistake I did. I originally bought a pair of Vantage for my front left and right, and matched them with a Fresco I as my center. I put Fresco I's in the rear left and right as well. The front Vantage definitely over powered the Fresco I center, and vocals were a nightmare during movies. 2 channel stereo music sounded amazing because of the Vantages, but home theater sucked balls because the center was too weak. I eventually sold the Fresco I center, and upgraded to the Motif. Upgrading to the Motif definitely made a HUGE difference. So, in all honesty the center channel is the most important speaker in a home theater setup.

One more things to note... Make sure you power the motif with at least 100 watts... more is better. Especially if you're using a receiver... more watts will make that puppy sing.
Good luck!

 

[dmusoke]

Well, don't make the same mistake I did. I originally bought a pair of Vantage for my front left and right, and matched them with a Fresco I as my center. I put Fresco I's in the rear left and right as well. The front Vantage definitely over powered the Fresco I center, and vocals were a nightmare during movies. 2 channel stereo music sounded amazing because of the Vantages, but home theater sucked balls because the center was too weak. I eventually sold the Fresco I center, and upgraded to the Motif. Upgrading to the Motif definitely made a HUGE difference. So, in all honesty the center channel is the most important speaker in a home theater setup.

One more things to note... Make sure you power the motif with at least 100 watts... more is better. Especially if you're using a receiver... more watts will make that puppy sing.
Good luck!

+1 ... i bought the Stage center to match my spires anout a month ago and it definately makes a HUGE difference. The sound and bass its capable of is intoxicating indeed. Yeah, the center speaker is KEY as all dialogue for HT is mixed into the center speaker. If you have a weak one, you're out of luck!!!