Advice From The Experts Here

[timm]

First to Timm re the Denon DVD5900 stand alone vs. The Bryston BDA-1. For SACD and a couple of DVD-As I have I use the dac in the player itself. For Redbook CD the Bryston is superior. I'm not good with audiophile words (though I be one! ) I think the Bryston is more focused, more air around the instruments. For want of a better term the Denon alone sounds sloppy and the Bryston gives the music precision. Well worth the investment. Of course I get the same upgrade running my Squeezbox and MacBook Pro with hi-rez files through the BDA-1. I like it a lot. I compared it extensively to the Benchmark and thought they were close but the Bryston had better bottom in my system.

I started my quest for new speakers today by auditioning the Thiel 3.7 and the Magneplanar 3.6. Using a variety of classical, jazz and the new Beatles remasters (stereo and mono) I thought the Thiels sounded like Carnegie Hall where I've spent many years listening to orchestras. Excellent imaging, harmonically rich, deep enough bass for me and none of the high end hardness I have heard from auditioning Thiels in the past. What it lacked, for me, is that see through quality you get from a planar. Of course it's the sound I'm used to after listening the the Infinity RS1B for over 20 years. I also take listening in a dealer's showroom with a grain of salt.

The Maggies were lovely despite being, in my opinion, being woefully underdriven by a NAD Silver integrated. The very bottom wasn't there, I could tell from the lack of oomph from the tympani in Copland and Stravinsky, but the planar sound was unmistakable. Rally, really nice.

Tomorrow, The Summit X and The Spires!!!!

thanks for the response craig.... I like your strategy ... Unfortunate about the Maggie amp issue - but, it will be interesting to hear your impression vs the spires/summitX.... If you were looking at the summitX - why not audition the 20.1s? I listened to the summit and the 20.1 and I am not sure which path I would take there.... I would have kept running back and forth from store a to store b.... I thought the 3.6s were very nice as well - but I heard them on arc gear which I am sure pushed them quite nicely....Interesting stuff!!

 

[Craig]

Craig,
Good luck with your speaker trials. Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm a fan of Maggie's although I've never owned a pair so far. I'm also a fan of a few medium efficiency cone type speakers and currently using a pair of Sonus Faber Cremonas and driven with a strong Art Audio SET tube amp. Had and have a few models of the Martin Logans and none were ever a bad choice. I went away from Electrostats for a year but suffered withdrawal symptoms and came back.

One thing I like about the Martin Logans is physical as well as aural transparency. The Spires and Summits also are relatively compact and are a better fit into a room than their larger cousins.

Let us know what you finally decide on and we won't be offended if your choice isn't Martin Logan. I believe most on this forum recognize there are also many wonderful speakers outside the world of Martin Logans but I have yet to hear a design more true to the source.

Craig

 

[babydoc]

ML Choices for your room

First to Timm re the Denon DVD5900 stand alone vs. The Bryston BDA-1. For SACD and a couple of DVD-As I have I use the dac in the player itself. For Redbook CD the Bryston is superior. I'm not good with audiophile words (though I be one! ) I think the Bryston is more focused, more air around the instruments. For want of a better term the Denon alone sounds sloppy and the Bryston gives the music precision. Well worth the investment. Of course I get the same upgrade running my Squeezbox and MacBook Pro with hi-rez files through the BDA-1. I like it a lot. I compared it extensively to the Benchmark and thought they were close but the Bryston had better bottom in my system.

I started my quest for new speakers today by auditioning the Thiel 3.7 and the Magneplanar 3.6. Using a variety of classical, jazz and the new Beatles remasters (stereo and mono) I thought the Thiels sounded like Carnegie Hall where I've spent many years listening to orchestras. Excellent imaging, harmonically rich, deep enough bass for me and none of the high end hardness I have heard from auditioning Thiels in the past. What it lacked, for me, is that see through quality you get from a planar. Of course it's the sound I'm used to after listening the the Infinity RS1B for over 20 years. I also take listening in a dealer's showroom with a grain of salt.

The Maggies were lovely despite being, in my opinion, being woefully underdriven by a NAD Silver integrated. The very bottom wasn't there, I could tell from the lack of oomph from the tympani in Copland and Stravinsky, but the planar sound was unmistakable. Rally, really nice.

Tomorrow, The Summit X and The Spires!!!!

I owned the original Summits before I upgraded to CLXs. Your room is slightly but not dramatically smaller than mine (20x15x8). If you get the Summits you will probably not need a subwoofer. If you go for the Spires you might need one but it depends on your room treatment. If you go for subs, get a pair (you can get used Descents or Depths at very reasonable prices). Having at least 2 will smooth out bass response. Will be interested in seeing what happens with your search.

 

[CraigS720]

Re: my speaker search (long):

OK, today was MartinLogan day! Yesterday I called the dealer and requested he set up the Summit X and the Spires for an audition.

Things did not go well from the start. After driving an hour to the store, I entered the showroom and only the Summits driven by Spectral electronics were on display. When I inquired about the Spires I was informed the Summits are much better. Why can't they just do what you asked for? Geez. Needless to say I didn't start in a good mood.

I have my collection of CDs (I don't bring vinyl because it's rare these days for a store to have a turntable setup.) and I start light to get my ears adjusted. A little Tony Bennett and Bill Evans my favorite piano player. Oh my. Now we're talking. Tony Bennett in the room, beautiful piano tone and that spooky transparency stats are known for. A smile appears on my face.

All right, let's move on to something more powerful, Count Basie Big Band "88 Basie Street". We start with the piano, then the bass and drums, then the muted trumpet, then the SPECTRAL SHUTS DOWN! Huh? What was that? Let's start again. Turn the amps back on, spin the CD, then the piano, bass and drums, then the muted trumpet and in the same exact spot the SPECTRAL SHUTS DOWN. What? The MartinLogans when faced with a muted trumpet take out amplifiers that cost more than my car? So, I leave the room discouraged while the salesman hooks up Classe amps the size of small refrigerators.

We start yet again with the Basie. Now we make it through three cuts but the amps aren't warmed up and the sound is very, very nice, but not as good as the Spectral. But the horns are blatty, the bass deep and powerful, plenty of volume filling the large room and a warm, spacious sound. I get hopeful.

Let's move on to symphonic music. Copland, Third Symphony on Reference Recordings. I'm completely taken aback! I'm in the concert hall. I can hear all the inner detail. The sound is glorious. I can hear the skins on the tympani, The woodwinds and strings are gorgeous. Now I discover what the members of this club already know. This is complete heaven. My excitement is building. Where next? Some Shirley Horn, Toots Thielemans and Joe Pass then the end of the remastered Abbey Road. WOW!

So where does this leave me. The MartinLogans have vaulted to the top. I'm going to go to another dealer to hear the Spires. While in the store I looked around and saw the Magneplanar 20.1 mentioned in another post. Cool. But too large for my room. I was surprised by the CLX. In the pictures it looked much bigger. Then I ran into the Spires hidden in a back store room. That did not make me happy!

I am not sure what else I should listen to but before I put down some hard earned dollars I want to make sure I'm satisfied I've listened to most of what makes sense. In a totally different direction I have a desire to audition the ATC SCM 50 ASL active studio monitors (where, I have no idea). I heard ATC at AES shows and always been impressed. Also like the idea of active monitors (less wires to buy) and I could sell my Pass Aleph 2 and Parasound A21 to ameliorate the cost.

But for now, thanks to all of you. You are spot on on your descriptions of the sound and your love of the MartinLogans. It was worth all the nonsense to spend the time with them.

Craig

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Cgaig,

Thanks for the insight.

Glad you're liking ML.

GG

 

[timm]

Ha!! Awsome.... You will NOT be happy with anything else!! Anyway- this is where you turn the screws on this dealer.... You just tell him - you aren't buying - until you hear the Spires... if indeed you plan to buy from this guy. But, considering you had to drive 1 hr... and he still didn't get it right - that would pi$$$ me off. But, the way I see it - I certainly wouldn't have any allegiances. So this guy sells maggies/logans and has the top of the line in the store... that is very nice - and a rare opportunity.. If you decide to buy from him - call him - tell him you have cash in hand - or credit card- want to discuss prices - but need to hear whatever speakers on whatever electronics.... Just let him know you aren't coming in to do some business with him. turn up the heat!!

 

[Gordon]

Craig, Could you tell us where you were able to hear the SummitX, Maggies, CLX and possibly the Spire in the same store?

I found your comment about the SummitX killing an amp strange. Did it thermally shutdown or did it blow a breaker? I've never had this problem. In fact, I've never even had my PowerGuard lights even briefly illuminate when hitting 500 watts.

Gordon

 

[timm]

Craig, Could you tell us where you were able to hear the SummitX, Maggies, CLX and possibly the Spire in the same store?

I found your comment about the SummitX killing an amp strange. Did it thermally shutdown or did it blow a breaker? I've never had this problem. In fact, I've never even had my PowerGuard lights even briefly illuminate when hitting 500 watts.

Gordon

Especially since the Spectral is Class D - is it not?? that doesn't make sense.

 

[CraigS720]

I didn't hear all of those speakers, just saw them there

It was Overture in Wilmington, Delaware which is a very high end store. Both the salesman and I were startled when the Spectral shutdown. I don't know that one could attribute it just to the SummitX though. The Classe played just fine. Maybe the Spectral was defective but I heard the same amps drive the Magico 5 just fine about a month or so earlier.

Craig

 

[twich54]

Especially since the Spectral is Class D - is it not?? that doesn't make sense.

No...Class AB to the best of my knowledge.

They're the same ones I listened to week ago Fri driving the CLX's.

Craig, sorry to hear that you didn't get a listen to the Spire's...regardless, my offer still stands.

 

[CraigS720]

Hi Dave.

Thanks for the offer. But what was it?

Craig

 

[twich54]

Hi Dave.

Thanks for the offer. But what was it?

Craig

Check your "PM" from last week........

 

[twich54]

Well , I had Craig over today for a listen to my Spire set-up....... did my best to convince him to come over to the "M/L camp" !!