Acquiring That Perfect Centered Center Stage...

[Audioseduction]

I’ve been fine tuning my ML’s this week to get the center stage perfectly centered this week. I find by adjusting the toe-in and toe-out that it impacts the location of the center stage immensely. Also just by adjusting them by a ¼” makes a big difference. I think conventional cone drivers speakers are less difficult to acquire perfect centered center stage then the stats. What are your thoughts on this? By the way I’m still adjusting. The flashlight deal is not perfect.

 

[DTB300]

Don't forget about the tilt adjustment (forward and back) too. All of these adjustments when done correctly for your room and seating position will get the best from your logans

 

[lugano]

In my particular situation, movies are enjoyed from sitting positions all around the room, which makes narrow sweet spots unrealistic and rules the specific ML products out. The center channel, with its great responsibility for voices in the dialogs, can't come from Martin Logan, although I'd like to, so I'm sticking to my B&W CDM CNT.

 

[Audioseduction]

In my particular situation, movies are enjoyed from sitting positions all around the room, which makes narrow sweet spots unrealistic and rules the specific ML products out. The center channel, with its great responsibility for voices in the dialogs, can't come from Martin Logan, although I'd like to, so I'm sticking to my B&W CDM CNT.

I'm refering to my dedicated 2CH not my HT in the other room.

 

[lugano]

I'm refering to my dedicated 2CH not my HT in the other room.

Sorry George !

I was thinking about this, when I read the thread title :

http://www.us.martinlogan.com/speaker_intro/stage.html

 

[Rich]

I’ve been fine tuning my ML’s this week to get the center stage perfectly centered this week.

Sometimes I think audiophiles obsess too much about getting the soundstage "perfect." When 1/4" adjustments to the speaker make a big difference in the soundstage, I'm thinking there is a problem. Either the sweet spot is waaayyy too narrow, or we are just waaayyy too obsessive. I don't mean to pick on you George. I have gone through the same thing you are going through right now with similar results. My best advice is to tweak them to a point that you are happy and then just accept that it is good enough and sit back and enjoy the music.

Also, understand that speaker positioning is only one factor involved in getting the soundstage perfect. Room acoustics and even associated components can have a big impact on this as well. Have fun and most of all, Enjoy the Music!

 

[Audioseduction]

Sometimes I think audiophiles obsess too much about getting the soundstage "perfect." When 1/4" adjustments to the speaker make a big difference in the soundstage, I'm thinking there is a problem. Either the sweet spot is waaayyy too narrow, or we are just waaayyy too obsessive. I don't mean to pick on you George. I have gone through the same thing you are going through right now with similar results. My best advice is to tweak them to a point that you are happy and then just accept that it is good enough and sit back and enjoy the music.

Also, understand that speaker positioning is only one factor involved in getting the soundstage perfect. Room acoustics and even associated components can have a big impact on this as well. Have fun and most of all, Enjoy the Music!

You may be right. There maybe a point where you can become too critical of your equipment and the way it performs and not enjoying the music anymore. I need to shake this anal/too critical feeling about my equipment off and get back to enjoying the music. Not easy to do.

 

[Audioseduction]

Will it appears for me to have the center stage centered, I have to have the right speaker toed in about ½” more then the left to compensate for the reflection from the wall with the fireplace that’s left of the left speaker. Also the right side has no wall. Is there anyone else in the same or similar predicament?

 

[DTB300]

Will it appears for me to have the center stage centered, I have to have the right speaker toed in about ½” more then the left to compensate for the reflection from the wall with the fireplace that’s left of the left speaker. Also the right side has no wall. Is there anyone else in the same or similar predicament?

I would imagine there are more people like you, especially those with odd shaped rooms and also dependent on placements of their speakers and seating positions. Each speaker should be set the same from the listening position as just a starting point and make adjustments from there. No need to worry about anything afterwards other than how it sounds.

To improve on the sound you are getting, you should try some 1st reflection point treatments in your room and see what you think about the imaging improvements. Something as simple as 2" Auralex Wedge (<$20 each) can be used for this. You can test this out first with some blankets or pillows stacked in this 1st reflection point area.

Dan

 

[Audioseduction]

I would imagine there are more people like you, especially those with odd shaped rooms and also dependent on placements of their speakers and seating positions. Each speaker should be set the same from the listening position as just a starting point and make adjustments from there. No need to worry about anything afterwards other than how it sounds.

To improve on the sound you are getting, you should try some 1st reflection point treatments in your room and see what you think about the imaging improvements. Something as simple as 2" Auralex Wedge (<$20 each) can be used for this. You can test this out first with some blankets or pillows stacked in this 1st reflection point area.

Dan

I could not get that past my wife covering up the fireplace aera.

 

[C.A.P]

There is no exact magical placement formula that works in every room especially odd shapes. I have had to do different tilts and toe ins before with various speakers. I had to listen with my eyes closed as it did drive me crazy ! never the less , it did sound better.

 

[twich54]

I could not get that past my wife covering up the fireplace aera.

George, you're in Florida, what do you need a fireplace for ???

FWIW, here's a pic of what I did, and it's easily removed when the wife says so !! Same Heavy fabric that covers my safe, with 2" Auralex sewn in behind it. on or off in less than 10 seconds !

 

[Brad225]

Ya George it can be an anal compulsion. Some days I listen to my system and think this is all I need and the next day I think maybe I should try this or that. My sweet spot is rather sensitive to your position if you want it to be the best.

One side or the other still sounds very good but its clearly not the sweet spot.

As far as toe in my left speaker which has a wall with glass and horizontal wooden blinds beside it is turned in a small amount more and still doesn't have as much musical presentation outside the speaker as the right speaker.
The right speaker has a 3' wide door way about a foot in front of the speaker in its side wall. I have tried acoustical absorption directly across from the door but it did not have the same effect on the sound. Just one of those things to play with until I figure it out or I am in a new room.

One of the things that make the biggest difference for me it being sure both speakers are parallel side to side and have the same tilt. When you think you have the tilt the same stand beside one of your speakers as far back as is practical and sight the angle of one in relation to the other. Move your head side to side and line one speaker up with the other to see that both are on exactly on the same plane forward or back.

I have moved lamps a few inches, turned chairs along the side of the room and other odd things I decline to mention with the hope of changing the sound.

My latest listening spot is with my back against the back wall of the room (I know this should be a bad place to sit). I sit on a short stool with 3 cushions and my knees just about touch the back of the couch. The height is on the same plane as it would be if I am sitting on the couch 3 1/2 feet forward. Plus there is a bookcase right beside me to set my wine glass. I need to work on a back cushion as the casing on the door in that wall is in the middle of my back. Oh the things we do for the best listening position.
This puts me about 18' away from my CLSs and the sound stage and image is much larger than on the couch with out loosing any detail, to me any way.


On another subject.


Come on Rich did you really say this with a straight face.

"My best advice is to tweak them to a point that you are happy and then just accept that it is good enough and sit back and enjoy the music."

 

[MotorToad]

Will it appears for me to have the center stage centered, I have to have the right speaker toed in about ½” more then the left to compensate for the reflection from the wall with the fireplace that’s left of the left speaker. Also the right side has no wall. Is there anyone else in the same or similar predicament?

Definitely in the same boat. The right channel is in a corner and the left has an intersection behind it with no corners. There is absolutely nowhere else to put the speakers so I've got them way too close together just to even them out. Getting a centered center is going to need a room upgrade.

 

[Audioseduction]

You guys are making me feel better with your stories. Dave, look what I did. I used a heavy azz wool blanket folded 4 times thick and blocked that bad coner. Before the highs were piercing my left ear while the right was just fine, now with the blanket hanging there the left side had leveled out and the high frequencies are at normal level. Plus a slight toe-in on the right speaker I've acquired my perfect centered center stage. :music: Thanks for the help everyone! :rocker:

 

[twich54]

You guys are making me feel better with your stories. Dave, look what I did. I used a heavy azz wool blanket folded 4 times thick and blocked that bad comer.

excellent !! and it looks as if it's easily removed when need be !

 

[Rich]

Come on Rich did you really say this with a straight face.

"My best advice is to tweak them to a point that you are happy and then just accept that it is good enough and sit back and enjoy the music."

HEE HEE HEE!!! Nope, I was being completely sarcastic with that comment.

Seriously, though, I think you guys are really sick. You need help. Maybe Joey can help you.