A Sincere From My Heart Question Regarding the Future of ML ESL

[GW1800]

I’m also concerned. Not seeing any ads and their rooms at Axpona seemed to lack passion. Previous years they were in larger rooms and just the setup was better. I own both CLX and 13a’s and am concerned. Dropping the CLX’s was a mistake but that wound just never heals. It’s by far with a set of subs their best system yet they discontinued them?? Go figure.

Prices are up but Rich to compare Summits to the 15a as equivalent’s is not even close. Not even sure the 13a is a fair comparison but more realistic so prices then are not up that much.

By the way Dennis is gone for a couple years now.

 

[christopherf]

A wee bit of humor is a good thing:

The Best Porsche Ads from Over the Years
The Best Porsche Ads from Over the Years.

 

[sgordon10]

In conversations with the sales desk last year, it was clear that new products in the ESL line were not a priority. This candor influenced my buying decision, as there was no point in "waiting for the next best thing."

Over forty years, as I went from Monolith to Prodigy, to Expression 13a, I was happy to vote "as a good consumer." I believed I was receding great sound, and great value, from my purchases. I also understand "business decisions." My disagreeing with them does not register as a personal affront.

The marketplace is where it all happens. I am glad ML understands this, and I always wish continued success for the Company.

 

[christopherf]

We are close to the end of the warranty period with our 13A; if they are discontinued how long will parts be available? I believe in the auto industry if a car is discontinued the manufacturer is required to keep parts for 10 years; not sure what would happen if the speakers are discontinued & there are no parts; we we would be the proud owners of expensive boat anchors; kidding not kidding. As for the marketplace driving sales THEY are shaping consumer desires by not exhibiting them. Ipso facto of course then there will be no consumer demand.

 

[Robert D]

We are close to the end of the warranty period with our 13A; if they are discontinued how long will parts be available? I believe in the auto industry if a car is discontinued the manufacturer is required to keep parts for 10 years; not sure what would happen if the speakers are discontinued & there are no parts; we we would be the proud owners of expensive boat anchors; kidding not kidding. As for the marketplace driving sales THEY are shaping consumer desires by not exhibiting them. Ipso facto of course then there will be no consumer demand.

My Prodigies were 20 years old when I got new panels.

 

[rpokuls]

I never understood why ML discontinued the CLX.

I currently have the 13A. Going to the CLX would be a natural upgrade for me but that option is now closed.

When was the Masterpiece lineup released (2015/16 ?) ?

It's now 8 years since a new ESL design has been released.

 

[GW1800]

I think part of it is where can they go anymore? The 8 year design fixed by a long shot what the previous design lacked.

Also not a fan of the Neolith is a solution looking for a problem as far as I’m concerned. Which brings us back to the CLX. I was told the guy the did the wood retired probably did so what’s the next excuse? I also reminded them once the masterpiece series came out they totally stopped advertising or promotion at shows for the CLX. So da the sales fell. They also had an opportunity to package with the 212 subs but never thought of that either!! I think and it breaks my heart a bit they just don’t have the passion for the audiophile it’s all about the masses.

 

[Robert D]

Do we really want Martin Logan running a big ad campaign? We will all end up paying more for our speakers if they do. The cost is already too high.

 

[TheBrokenPixel]

Not sure why you think that ESL's are not being exhibited at shows. They were literally at AXPONA not too long ago. I also think it's unfair to bash them for spending marketing dollars in a brand new line of products that just launched months ago. Of course there's still a passion of ESL products or they wouldn't be still bringing them to shows and events (they were also at the most recent CEDIA). Also if you follow MartinLogan on any of their socials, there's still a big showing of ESL products on there as well. Seems you just want to call them out for not advertising in the magazines that you have, which could be argued is not worth it as print materials are not as compelling anymore.

 

[GW1800]

Broken pixel yes the 15a’s were at Axpona and I see them at my local BB. Neither setup is even close to right. I get that but they used to advertise in the mags at least some but nothing for months. The quality was sub par this year compared to others at Axpona. Something has happened like this thread is implying and don’t think it’s good for us ELS owners. They had a normal bedroom which is way way to small and in my option they need subs also but again the room hurt. In the past they were in much much larger rooms with the big players down the line. Just seemed to me their bean keeper was in charge not the audio people for sound quality. They definitely saved money I guess that box go checked.

Just think they have lost their way with audiophiles and hooked their train to the masses where there is lots more competition. I get it electrostats take up more room and many don’t have it so I guess something is better than nothing. It fits the space but sound quantity suffers.

 

[TheBrokenPixel]

Broken pixel yes the 15a’s were at Axpona and I see them at my local BB. Neither setup is even close to right. I get that but they used to advertise in the mags at least some but nothing for months. The quality was sub par this year compared to others at Axpona. Something has happened like this thread is implying and don’t think it’s good for us ELS owners. They had a normal bedroom which is way way to small and in my option they need subs also but again the room hurt. In the past they were in much much larger rooms with the big players down the line. Just seemed to me their bean keeper was in charge not the audio people for sound quality. They definitely saved money I guess that box go checked.

Just think they have lost their way with audiophiles and hooked their train to the masses where there is lots more competition. I get it electrostats take up more room and many don’t have it so I guess something is better than nothing. It fits the space but sound quantity suffers.

It's my understanding for the Axpona room that it wasn't really MartinLogan's choice? Could be wrong on that, but that's what I had heard. Unfortunately you can't please everyone when it comes to subs vs no subs, someone will always complain either that you have them or don't. I prefer subwoofers, but that's just me.

As for your second point, I have to still disagree. ML's ESL offerings are still over 10 different models. I can't recall another time when they had that many models at one point in time, maybe you can? Plus considering how much more was packed into the Masterpiece ESL series over the previous line, and if I recall correctly they were the same price when they launched. Cost increases only came during and/or post-COVID (along with pretty much everything in the world), so I don't really fault ML for that. As a CLX owner as well, I of course with they still made it, I'm sure there's reasons they don't though, sales may not have been there to justify keeping readily available inventory on hand? I don't know the answer to that.

Just seems no one wants to give them the benefit of the doubt and wants to assume that MartinLogan hates audiophiles now and doesn't want to build ESL anymore. They're current assortment certainly would lead me to believe otherwise.

 

[TheBrokenPixel]

We are close to the end of the warranty period with our 13A; if they are discontinued how long will parts be available? I believe in the auto industry if a car is discontinued the manufacturer is required to keep parts for 10 years; not sure what would happen if the speakers are discontinued & there are no parts; we we would be the proud owners of expensive boat anchors; kidding not kidding. As for the marketplace driving sales THEY are shaping consumer desires by not exhibiting them. Ipso facto of course then there will be no consumer demand.

As for the warranty question, ML has always done a fantastic job of servicing their long discontinued products. I've had to acquire some parts for my CLX's before after they had been discontinued. There are lots of stories about ML and their service team.

 

[GW1800]

I’m not saying they hate audiophile’s it’s just they have slipped in their priorities even the top subs have not been updated for about the same time as ESL. They have those in wall monsters that also demo badly just like the 15a’s ( I know the 15’s can sound great but they need space) and at 20k each speaker wonder how they are selling along with the Neolith. They need a 50-60ishk speaker IMO that would be a serious commitment. CLX++

As expected once they were absorbed into another company and lots of the original people having checked out where is the passion? I’ve been there at the plant in CAN and of the three products ML takes up the least space.

Oh well we are not going to solve anything here and they certainly will not listen to us will just have to see where this all goes but I’m concerned.

 

[GW1800]

I agree service is top notch without question. Totally agree

 

[TheBrokenPixel]

Well Vojtko is still around, not sure if you saw the Facebook post, so they still have folks there with passion. Of course it's sad that Dennis is no longer there, wish he was, but I guess a guys' gotta retire someday right?

 

[TheBrokenPixel]

Also agree, top subs could use an update, it's been awhile.

 

[GW1800]

Dennis and Steve have been gone a couple of years. Good to know V is still there he is definitely solid but not sure his age. Russell is also solid was at my house last year. Great background and audio history.

 

[msimanyi]

It's easy to complain about how someone - or some business - does something. I don't need to reiterate TheBrokenPixel's comments above, but I will mention some other considerations.

Print ads - at least when I was exposed to them 20+ years ago - were always submitted 3+ months before the publication released. We would literally be working on a brand new, totally revised campaign when the "old" campaign was first hitting the readers' eyes.

For the past six+ months, if not longer, we've seen reports of an impending recession. Economists / publications vary from "unavoidable" and "catastrophic" to "might not happen."

Given the likelihood of a recession, the first thing I'd do if I were in charge of luxury products is cut marketing expense. Push the lower priced goods. Work some "grass roots" marketing through magazine p.r. or review coverage.

Certainly ML has done much of that, but given the excellence and stability of their current Masterpiece lineup, it's not exactly Breaking News, which in turn means it's hard to get the p.r. and review coverage.

I think what we're seeing isn't Martin Logan abandoning their market and existing customers, but rather one that is carefully managing their finances through an unprecedented pandemic and related, ongoing economic fallout. The companies that are fortunate to make it through to the other side of our current economic uncertainties should enjoy a welcome business opportunity, but they have to stay in business first, to get to that threshold.

Frankly I think it's entirely possible they're doing a prudent job of managing the company.

 

[rpokuls]

I agree service is top notch without question. Totally agree

Yeah a few years back when I owned Montis, the blue LED that illuminated the ML signature logo burned out. I contacted ML and the service was
amazing.

Basic handholding till I replaced the LED myself. And I'm not Mr. Handyman.

I have no reason to believe that anything has changed at least in the Customer Service department.

 

[Robert D]

Yeah a few years back when I owned Montis, the blue LED that illuminated the ML signature logo burned out. I contacted ML and the service was
amazing.

Basic handholding till I replaced the LED myself. And I'm not Mr. Handyman.

I have no reason to believe that anything has changed at least in the Customer Service department.

I just had a great experience with Ron at ML when he tried to help me repair my BF210 sub and in the end he sent me a brand new one under warranty. They care about their customers, that's very hard to find these days.