400 watts to a 200 watt speaker?

[magnoliarichj]

what happens when you drive a speaker that is rated at 200 max watts with a 400 watt rms amplifier...

 

[sleepysurf]

KABOOM! (just kidding)

Actually, driving speakers with MORE watts than their nominal rating is usually NOT a problem. You're more likely to cause problems overdriving an underpowered amp (causing clipping).

Can you give us more details... which speaker, which amp?

 

[magnoliarichj]

i have claritys and am getting some vantages or summits later this year. i was looking at driving the fronts witha primare 30.2 at 4 ohms its 400 rms. then running the center and rears witha 3 channel. using the claritys for the rear and the larger for the front and 2 channel needs. just wondering if i got the am first the 30.2 that is. putting roughly 3 hundred or so the the claritys since they are rated at 6ohms if it would hurt them. i did not think it would. i thought the way to hurt a speaker was not give it what they want, when they want the power.

 

[enilsen]

what happens when you drive a speaker that is rated at 200 max watts with a 400 watt rms amplifier...

What kind of speaker would be affected by too much power is the question?

Dynamic speakers in general can overheat the voice coil if too much energy is supplied but not necessary heard as distortion. An electrostatic speaker will smack against the stator and would obviously not sound good but any damage would be limited if even noticeable.

I suspect you should always be careful when overpowering a dynamic element. I have destroyed quite a few in my careless days. :devil:
I have yet to overpower an electrostatic panel.

 

[JohnA]

My other speakers are rated at 120W and have always been driving them with 200W (closer to 300W actually since they are rated at 6 Ohms).
Never had a problem, despite occassionally playing them very loud.

Any speakers that I've burnt in the past were due to not enough power - my theory is that the distortion at high frequencies clogs the tweeters (clipping), giving them no time to cool down. Amps with excess power do not distort when stressed, so the speaker's drivers see a 'cleaner' signal and they survive.

 

[karma]

HI All,
I think it is a concern. In my recently established bedroom HT system, I have B&W 800S stand mounted mains, rated at 130W, driven by Krell 3250 power which is rated at 250W/channel into 8 ohms. This amp is fully capable of destroying my 805S's. But, it's not every day use that concerns me.

Rather, it's the accident. For example, unplugging an interconnect with the system powered up. This scenario, which has happened to every audiophile, can put tremendous power through the speakers. This is the cause of many blown speakers.

Disaster due to over-powered speakers could happen to me. So, I must be very careful to avoid disaster.

Performance concerns favor over-powered speakers. All amplifiers are at their best the further you operate from the amps limits. My Krell is just loafing driving the better than average sensitivity of my 805S's (88dB).

Another example, my 250W Krell is a a class A/B topology. A high powered amp spends more time in class A operation relative to my speakers sensitivity. This is generally good.

So, it's a trade-off. I almost always vote for more power.

Sparky

Sparky

 

[DTB300]

-my theory is that the distortion at high frequencies clogs the tweeters (clipping), giving them no time to cool down.

It has always been explained to me that distortion is read by the crossover network as high energy, or tweeter type sound. With the type of power being sent, the tweeter voice coils are overheated, as noted by the other post here, and become destroyed.

Dan

 

[Thai]

It has always been explained to me that distortion is read by the crossover network as high energy, or tweeter type sound. With the type of power being sent, the tweeter voice coils are overheated, as noted by the other post here, and become destroyed.

Dan

Doesn't the crossover have some sort of fuse or protection network to protect this?? In car audio, many high-end crossovers do have protection fuse to protect the tweeter.

 

[DTB300]

Doesn't the crossover have some sort of fuse or protection network to protect this?? In car audio, many high-end crossovers do have protection fuse to protect the tweeter.

Pass. Can I have Food for $100 instead?

Dan

 

[Tj Bassi]

I've been running ReQuests with a pair of Krell 650m's for about six months with no problems so far......we're just careful to mute the preamp before powering up the amps themselves, and we limit the maximum volume in the preamp's setup in case one of our kids finds the level control.

Tj

 

[silver98]

The probelm as stated in numerous replies above is insufficient power causing the amp to be driven to overload. There is however the question of the quality of the signal that is being amplified. as alluded to earlier, unplugging an interconnect with the amp powered up is, sorry, but careless and not necessarily a reason for an audiophile with a high end system to shy away from a powerful amp. Having a lower quality source signal produced by less than optimal source equipment with a powerful amp is a recipe for disaster.

The advantages of higher powered amps are numerous, including a 'crisper' response to transients, faster recovery and tighter control of the speakers, be they cones, panels, horns or whatever. Loudness, per se, is not the reason to use a higher powered amp. ESL's are by there very nature, less dynamic, or more accurately, produce a lower SPL than a cone type of speaker. ML ESL's have a larger than norm range of capacitance than cones and they vary widely across the audio spectrum. A higher power amp typically can handle these variances better and result in a more natural sound. There is, after all, a difference between room filling, live SPL and a booming 'over the top' SPL

 

[risabet]

Speakers are in much more danger from too little power than from too much. The rationale for this is simple, high power is unlikely to clip at reasonable volumes, sending nice clean signals to the speakers, whereas a low powered amp will clip more easily sending high order harmonics at high power levels to tweeters that DON'T LIKE THAT. I ran Spica TC-50's (rated 50 watt max) for years with a PS Audio 100C (200 wpc) with nary a problem. You can't have too much power!

PS: I would never trust a speaker fuse to protect a tweeter from a hard clipping SS amp.

 

[risabet]

The probelm as stated in numerous replies above is insufficient power causing the amp to be driven to overload. There is however the question of the quality of the signal that is being amplified. Having a lower quality source signal produced by less than optimal source equipment with a powerful amp is a recipe for disaster.

How? A clean but crappy sounding CD is of no more danger to the speakers than a well mastered one. The only issue is the spectrum of the overloaded signal. The speakers certainly don't know the quality of the source.

The advantages of higher powered amps are numerous, including a 'crisper' response to transients, faster recovery and tighter control of the speakers, be they cones, panels, horns or whatever.

All things being equal this is not my experience at all. Having heard and sold dozens of brands of amps I have always found that a manufacturer's lower powered units, all things being equal, are better sounding than their higher powered units. A perfect case is the ML-2 at 25 wpc versus ML-3 at 200 wpc. YMMV

 

[Rich]

All things being equal this is not my experience at all. Having heard and sold dozens of brands of amps I have always found that a manufacturer's lower powered units, all things being equal, are better sounding than their higher powered units. A perfect case is the ML-2 at 25 wpc versus ML-3 at 200 wpc. YMMV

Although often true in a general sense, I think this statement is a little misleading. Amps operating in Class A tend to be lower powered and tend to have a more pleasing sound than amps that are A/B. Single-ended triodes tend to be lower powered and tend to sound better than their push-pull brethren.

But this is also very manufacturer, speaker and room dependant. If you were trying to drive the Prodigies in a large room, I would guess that the ML-3 would provide a more pleasing result than the ML-2 at standard listening levels. Likewise, if you are comparing solid-state class A/B amplifiers of the same brand trying to drive a low-sensitivity speaker, I think the 400 wpc version is going to sound better than the 50 wpc version.

MLs (especially the bigger ones) are very power-hungry speakers and are rarely going to sound as good with a flea-powered amp as they are with a high-powered one. Otherwise, we would all have SETs in our systems.

 

[jjqiv]

Although often true in a general sense, I think this statement is a little misleading. Amps operating in Class A tend to be lower powered and tend to have a more pleasing sound than amps that are A/B. Single-ended triodes tend to be lower powered and tend to sound better than their push-pull brethren.

But this is also very manufacturer, speaker and room dependant. If you were trying to drive the Prodigies in a large room, I would guess that the ML-3 would provide a more pleasing result than the ML-2 at standard listening levels. Likewise, if you are comparing solid-state class A/B amplifiers of the same brand trying to drive a low-sensitivity speaker, I think the 400 wpc version is going to sound better than the 50 wpc version.

MLs (especially the bigger ones) are very power-hungry speakers and are rarely going to sound as good with a flea-powered amp as they are with a high-powered one. Otherwise, we would all have SETs in our systems.

But the ML-3 in the large room would most likely not sound as nice as the ML-2 in the smaller room.

 

[kcl]

But the ML-3 in the large room would most likely not sound as nice as the ML-2 in the smaller room.

Not necessarily true. As I've mentioned elsewhere, since planer speakers are a line source their volume drop-off is inverse linear (volume drop to 1/2 moving twice as far away), whereas cone speakers are point sources whose drop-off is inverse square (drop to 1/4 doubling the distance). Once planer speakers are driven well enough to produce their marvelous sound, they will easily fill a room, almost regardless of that room's size (within reason, of course).

 

[Rich]

But the ML-3 in the large room would most likely not sound as nice as the ML-2 in the smaller room.

Hmmmm? Let's see. The ML-3 in a large room driving the Prodigies vs. the ML-2 in a smaller room driving the Summits. Now that would be a fun comparison. Who wants to try this demo and report back to us on the results?

 

[jjqiv]

Not necessarily true. As I've mentioned elsewhere, since planer speakers are a line source their volume drop-off is inverse linear (volume drop to 1/2 moving twice as far away), whereas cone speakers are point sources whose drop-off is inverse square (drop to 1/4 doubling the distance). Once planer speakers are driven well enough to produce their marvelous sound, they will easily fill a room, almost regardless of that room's size (within reason, of course).

With the panels, its not really a question of watts, it a question of current. If the ML-2 has enough current, I bet it will sound better. Just theory.

My 50 watt AES Six Pacs can make my CLS's sing much better than my 200 watt per channel Aragon 8008X5's which is spec'ed to double down.

 

[roberto]

With the panels, its not really a question of watts, it a question of current. If the ML-2 has enough current, I bet it will sound better. Just theory.

My 50 watt AES Six Pacs can make my CLS's sing much better than my 200 watt per channel Aragon 8008X5's which is spec'ed to double down.

Hola...I´m going to say something here guys, I like better quality watts than quantity...I do believe you!!! Happy listening,
Roberto.:musicnote:

 

[risabet]

With the panels, its not really a question of watts, it a question of current. If the ML-2 has enough current, I bet it will sound better. Just theory.

My 50 watt AES Six Pacs can make my CLS's sing much better than my 200 watt per channel Aragon 8008X5's which is spec'ed to double down.

Exactly, the ML-2 (as an example only) doubled into 4 and again into 2 ohm loads. It would, IMO drive the hell out of any ML speaker and sound better doing so than the ML-3.