200 g, 180 g, X gram .....

[timm]

so, obviously a representation of the weight of the vinyl. what does it buy you? Is the album thicker - and less likely to warp? why would the sound be better on heavier vinyl?

Here are my concerns with vinyl. First of all, I was alive when vinyl was king - and had 150 albums. However, as a youngster, I was way more patient and particular bringing albums back when they were either warped,skipped, or had large pops etc... Now, since most new records are sold via mail - and given the prices they are charging - what are the odds of getting a pristine copy? The QC back in the 70's/80's sucked to be quite honest. I bet I took back 25% of my albums for a replacement. Can't do that via the mail - because they don't cover the shipping...and most stores - it seems now adays - look at you sideways if you want to bring something back.

Recently got an album from BestBuy and asked up front what the return policy is - I was told - they don't accept returns on albums. So, I took the gamble - and one of the albums is great - the other is one I would have brought back because it is a bit warped..and sounds a bit crunchy (maybe from the warp - and the needle not tracking as well???)

anyway, after getting the album, I have started to jones for a nice table - put a thread out on the pro-ject debut - but realize after reading some things - that probably won't do it for me... but until I take the leap on a vpi scout - I need to come to grips with the QC issues... so if any of you can chime in - re: QC/the value of the heavier vinyl - it would be appreciated.. thanks tim.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I have had very little trouble with the records I have purchased their have been a few but not many. the thicker vinyl is better but I have thin records that are amazing it really boils down to weather or not it was recorded well and how good the production was. I feel that for the Logan owning stereo neurotic nothing beets the sound of a record period but for the casual listener in a big rush it is probably a big paid in the but and not worth while.for what I have found is that records are a little like good wine its expensive and once in a while you get one that sucks but that's kind of the fun when you hear the ones that are good and have a perfect synergy with your system you can't help but smile and enjoy. many good music dealers will allow you to return absolutely ! my local record store has stated that if I ever bring a record home and it skips just one time he will take it back if the cover or inside sleeve is bent over he will take it back if the sound just sucks and it's a bad pressing bring it back PERIOD ! I have only returned one LP so far their are ones that are not perfect but so what ?

 

[timm]

I have had very little trouble with the records I have purchased their have been a few but not many. the thicker vinyl is better but I have thin records that are amazing it really boils down to weather or not it was recorded well and how good the production was. I feel that for the Logan owning stereo neurotic nothing beets the sound of a record period but for the casual listener in a big rush it is probably a big paid in the but and not worth while.for what I have found is that records are a little like good wine its expensive and once in a while you get one that sucks but that's kind of the fun when you hear the ones that are good and have a perfect synergy with your system you can't help but smile and enjoy. many good music dealers will allow you to return absolutely ! my local record store has stated that if I ever bring a record home and it skips just one time he will take it back if the cover or inside sleeve is bent over he will take it back if the sound just sucks and it's a bad pressing bring it back PERIOD ! I have only returned one LP so far their are ones that are not perfect but so what ?

I just went and looked at your setup fishman... tell me about the diff between the vpi classic & the marantz sacd player you have....also - did you get a chance to audition the scout vs the classic? I wish that dang ring clamp wasn't 600 bucks ... i really like the look of the vpi tables and the concept behind them... If I get a table - no reason to fuss about and get something that is not going to be as good of quality as my sacd player I think I have 1 dealer in the area...Right now I am listening to a circa 1980 philips 777 turntable with a bang & olufson mmc 4 cartridge. My phone pre is my cary slp 98p.... where do you think a vpi scout would take me in comparison? Right now, with a clean record - this setup is very close to a good sounding CD... different sounding - some might consider it better, while others might like the cd quietness and instrument seperation better. but when the record has any grunge - it drives my a bit nuts. stupid question - probably...but, I'll tell you - this is one of the only places I get my info...thanks for all of your input....

 

[tonepub]

No real diff in sound quality. The mastering is way more important than whether they press it on 140, 180 or 200 g.

The guys at MoFi told me they stopped pressing 200g records because the rejection rate was a lot higher and they needed a different press. That's not to say that 200g records are no good, it's just not that big of a difference and really shouldn't be a yardstick as to whether to buy a specific pressing.

I've heard great records on all three thicknesses.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I've heard great records on all three thicknesses.

so have I they all can sound good

 

[FISH_MAN]

I just went and looked at your setup fishman... tell me about the diff between the vpi classic & the marantz sacd player you have....also - did you get a chance to audition the scout vs the classic?

I just sent a private message to you I can give you even more details later if you want.

 

[timm]

thanks guys -- interesting stuff... any of you have opinions of the cary slp 98phono stage? I have heard decent things about it..

 

[MiTT]

No real diff in sound quality. The mastering is way more important than whether they press it on 140, 180 or 200 g.

I've heard great records on all three thicknesses.

I'm in agreement here. I've heard some real dogs on all three weights and I've heard some awesome ones. This morning I was listening to an Acoustic Sounds Blue Note re-issue on a 200 gm 45rpm pressing and then immediately followed it with a mid-70's Phillips 140 gm pressing of Haydn's "Paris Symphonies" and was astonished at how good the Phillips sounded by comparison. Both were extreemly well recorded and mixed, and luckily, Phillips apparently took some pride in their pressings back then.

For the most part, I believe that the vinyl I buy these days is better than what I used to buy back in the 60's-90's. Most of the on line retailers do in fact offer returns in the event of a bad pressing, but it's easier if you have a local brick & mortar record shop. Fortunately I've got 3 good ones in the area.

 

[twich54]

Recently got an album from BestBuy and asked up front what the return policy is - I was told - they don't accept returns on albums.

I don't believe that to be true....... my recent purchase of DMB new album required that i return it and the policy is (as I was told)...... they will not refund your money but will gladly exchange the Lp, which i did and the second one was fine.

Regarding the weight difference....as the others have said, but I'm led to believe the 180 and 200's are supposedly better vinyl...virgin ?? and thus are less likely to have 'impurities' which can elevate surface noise somewhat.

as for 'light weight' vinyl from back in the day, I am of the opinion that A&M pressed some of the best lightweight stuff around....... example, Cat Stevens pressing are superb !

 

[timm]

I'm in agreement here. I've heard some real dogs on all three weights and I've heard some awesome ones. This morning I was listening to an Acoustic Sounds Blue Note re-issue on a 200 gm 45rpm pressing and then immediately followed it with a mid-70's Phillips 140 gm pressing of Haydn's "Paris Symphonies" and was astonished at how good the Phillips sounded by comparison. Both were extreemly well recorded and mixed, and luckily, Phillips apparently took some pride in their pressings back then.

For the most part, I believe that the vinyl I buy these days is better than what I used to buy back in the 60's-90's. Most of the on line retailers do in fact offer returns in the event of a bad pressing, but it's easier if you have a local brick & mortar record shop. Fortunately I've got 3 good ones in the area.

Tim - care to comment on your dv50s vs your vpi aries? thanks tim.

 

[MiTT]

Tim - care to comment on your dv50s vs your vpi aries? thanks tim.

Sure. It really depends on the quality of the source material, pretty much the topic of your thread. If the pressing is marginal then the DV50s is a very good alternative (unless the problem is in the mastering in which case you pays your money and you takes your chances). I really like the Esoteric sound, I find it very revealing and it can pull details out of discs that none of the other players I have in the house or have owned in the past could extract. Ultimately though, with a good pressing (and I have many to choose from), I still prefer the VPI/Grado/Aesthetix rig for the pure pleasure of listening. The soundstage is larger. Localization of instruments or bodies in that soundstage is easier to find believable and the bloom around those instruments and bodies seems more lifelike. The combination is just as quiet as digital if the pressing is good and dynamics seem as good or better.

I've also got a Sonos network streaming setup. I tend to use the Sonos for convenience and for streaming music to other areas both inside and outside the house. I tend to use the Esoteric for SACD's and things I don't have on vinyl. But I almost always return to the vinyl rig when I have the time to really engage in my music.

 

[twich54]

More analog news from the NY Times .....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/nyregion/07vinyl.html?_r=1

I wonder how many 'younger people' will ask for a turntable from Santa this year ??

 

[VinnyQH]

yeah vinyl is coming back big, just will take a bit to get it going. I just got into vinyl last year at the ripe age of 25. This doesn't mean that i don't use electronically stored music, but that i like to listen to a good recording.

Now I buy mostly 180g vinyl becuase of the virgin vinyl and USUALLY (meaning not all the time) becuase when a company decides to put out something on 180g means that they probably put a little more time into the recording and mixing and all that jazz. It would also SEEM like they would be less likely to warp due to the thicking vinyl.

 

[Bernard]

Now I buy mostly 180g vinyl becuase of the virgin vinyl and USUALLY (meaning not all the time) becuase when a company decides to put out something on 180g means that they probably put a little more time into the recording and mixing and all that jazz. It would also SEEM like they would be less likely to warp due to the thicking vinyl.

And then you sometimes come across an LP of crappy quality in a second-hand store, but the music is oh so glorious. Give me one of those anyday than a well-recorded LP of music that I don't care for.

 

[risabet]

I'll buy vinyl of any weight, it's about the music. If some company issued the same mastering on 140g and 180g I'd buy the 140g if all other things were equal. That said some of the 180g records I have are awesome, especially the 45rpm APs which are kickass in extremis, seriously! Though I attribute that more to the 45rpm speed than the weight of the pressing.

 

[FISH_MAN]

And then you sometimes come across an LP of crappy quality in a second-hand store, but the music is oh so glorious. Give me one of those anyday than a well-recorded LP of music that I don't care for.

I will admit that if the recording is below a certain level I will have problems enjoying it no matter what it is, the bar is fairly low though.I like some records just because they sound good.