2 channel dedicated listening room size...

[Joey_V]

Few more questions:

I woke up real early for some reason and I began reading Stereophile's Guide to the Ideal Listening Room. Just skimming over it real quick, I came across several interesting but not sure if I can execute them type of facts.

Article:
http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/383awsi/

1. They advocate non-symmetrical walls/ceiling but a symmetrical room if a line were drawn down the middle. If I had the builder do this, the room would be all for naught if it weren't used for an audio room. No one in their right minds would want to use it as a 2nd floor family room if it looks like you're sitting a room from the Twilight zone...

2. They also discuss a 1:1.25:1.6 ratio system. They also begin talking about dimensions which are enormous - like 33 feet long and 20.5 feet tall... OMG! I recall having my Summits in my loft and the entire living area was open - they could NOT load the room at all and that was about 24x11 w/ 11 foot ceilings. The room swallowed the speakers up. I had a lot more fun in my small 13x10 dorm room... those were my best experiences with my audio gear.

3. They advocate heavy heavy carpeting for the audio room.... what do you guys think of hardwood (as show above... it is pretty) with a rug on top? I know in my past threads, we kind of went down the middle on this one.

4. What about ceiling height in a 13x16 room? 9 vs 10? If we apply the magic ratio -> it needs to be a 10 foot ceiling. 10 ft (1) to 13 feet (1.25-ish) to 16 (1.6-ish)???

5. What type of ceiling is best? Should I have the entire ceiling be a flat 10 foot? Should I have it coffered? Should I have it vaulted? Should I have it trayed?

Tray ceiling example (not from our home, disregard the design otherwise):

 

[Bernard]

Geez, why do you think they call it a "Man Cave?"

Yeah, but I'm not a caveman

 

[Bernard]

Joey, I see now why you can't put windows in that room.

As far as heavy carpeting is concerned, I think it's easier to go with hardwood and then add rugs as needed, whereas if you went with carpeting you'd be tied-in.

You may want to contact Jim Smith to consult with about constructional details. getbettersound.com

 

[adanny]

hi joey

It really sounded like you were short on advice so I'm piping in

first, echo congrats on a beautiful house which will no doubt be a beautiful home soon

second, i think cost aside your instinct on the basement is right. In a 5250 sq ft house, is another 1.5-2k sq ft basement necessary? We have a home roughly your size and have happily lived without a basement. That said, I dont have a dedicated listening room but if you ask my wife, every room in the house is a nearky-dedicated listening room . I also think a partially finished basement may look a little weird.

While I agree with the other posters wariness of a listening room that close to the master bedroom/other bed rooms, especially with kids on the way, that might be the best option given all the other constraints you mentioned. You definitely will have to sound proof the room somewhat substantially though. Even 80-90 db sound, which is not very loud and almost required with Logans, will easily travel in american homes which are very lightly built on the inside

third, i recall seeing a posting in AVSforum from a guy who self built an audio "cloud" in his ceiling with substantial absorption panels. try searcing for "cloud" absorption etc. It was a resonably detailed blog with pictures etc. not that you would DIY but may give you some ideas on the ceiling options

fourth, not sure I agree with your room size concerns wrt the stereophile article. I have a ~30x20x10 heavily carpetted B/R where I have a set of MBLs. They absolutely load the room and go deep. I also have a ~30x26x15family room completely open on one side, with Summits and they absolutely dont load the room. But I think thats because of the one side being oprn. the room, as you say, "eats them". But the acoustics in my large, carpetted BR are quite good despite size.

I find HW floors with rugs to look 100x better than carpetted rooms but frankly I find carpetted rooms sound better. There is clearly audible echoing in a HW room compounded by the dry walls typically used in america.

in summary, if i were you, i would happily create a listening room in the 10x13x16 room of your second design. I would carpet it, and then throw a rug on for variety. I would custom-sound proof and absorption panel it completely on the sides. leave it a little alive behind the listener and behind the speaker. Maybe throw in that absorptive ceiling cloud that the AVSforum guy created. it might give it an industrial look but will sound great. if not in the industrial look category, perhaps sound proof walls finished in a brick interior with 5-6 GIK art panels.

 

[Joey_V]

Adanny,

Can you send me or post pics of your listening rooms so I have an idea of how you did yours?

And do you think 13x16x10 would be sufficient given normal size speakers like Summits, CLX, Anything Wilson except the Maxx or Alexandrias?

Bernard,

Yeah no extra windows but there is a window on 1 of the short walls. I wonder if that's the speaker wall or the listening wall?

 

[Joey_V]

I just saw pics of those clouds and they look just right for my tastes and I could take them down if and when I move to the basement!

Nice!

I think I need to figure out what kind of stock ceiling I should have the builder go with. Should I go with a volume ceiling or a tray ceiling or a stepped ceiling?

The base ceiling is 9ft because I would need to upgrade the entire structure of the 2nd floor to 10ft if I wanted a base of 10ft. But that would cost about 15k because the entire house will be a foot taller.

The way I can get around this is by having the builder build a volume ceiling into the room which is a free feature.

 

[adanny]

I just saw pics of those clouds and they look just right for my tastes and I could take them down if and when I move to the basement!

Nice!

I think I need to figure out what kind of stock ceiling I should have the builder go with. Should I go with a volume ceiling or a tray ceiling or a stepped ceiling?

The base ceiling is 9ft because I would need to upgrade the entire structure of the 2nd floor to 10ft if I wanted a base of 10ft. But that would cost about 15k because the entire house will be a foot taller.

The way I can get around this is by having the builder build a volume ceiling into the room which is a free feature.

agree - $15k for an extra foot not necessary. 9 ft with a ~1 ft cloud may make the room intimate but should be ok. have no experience on the ceiling choices - have already clogged my brain with tons of other unnecessary info

 

[Joey_V]

Adanny,

Yeah so that's why I'm going to have them build in a tray ceiling to add an extra foot of height. The edges of the ceiling around where it meets the walls will be 9ft then it will quickly "volume" up.

Can you send me a pm of your idea for the design of my size listening room... Or post it here?

Thanks!

 

[asindc]

In my house I swapped the dinning room with the 2nd lounge, as the dinning room is downstairs.

You NEED to get downstairs, with a solid concrete floor. I reckon this is paramount and always have. My last place had suspended floors even on the ground floor. Trust me - it doesn't work and acts as a lousy badly controlled sub.

Solid floors rock. I'm not sure how most US houses are constructed floorwise. If your downstairs room of selection doesn't have it, see if you can get some poured in somehow. Then carpet it. With underlay. And throw a big rug on top too.

Me? Room treatments? Never...:devil:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. In my first house, I was set up in my living room on the 1st floor, one level above the basement. In my subsequent houses, I have been set up in the basement. Having solid floors means you don't have to do as many room treatments.

As far as room size is concerned, there are some guides published online about room size. I had researched them before moving into my present home. I would think Google can find a couple for you.

 

[David Matz]

Adanny,



And do you think 13x16x10 would be sufficient given normal size speakers like Summits, CLX, Anything Wilson except the Maxx or Alexandrias?

Joey,

Congrats on the house! I would not go anything bigger than Wilson Sophia in that room. I am sure that if you call Wilson, they will confirm that.

I think a pair of Vantages / Ethos or possibly Spires will be sublime in that room. I think the 2 woofers on the Summit may overload it and be overkill. Your cash will go further spent on a good source and superb ancillary electronics than on bigger speakers.

If you want BIG SOUND, do your basement.

Good Luck!

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,

Congrats on the house! I would not go anything bigger than Wilson Sophia in that room. I am sure that if you call Wilson, they will confirm that.

I think a pair of Vantages / Ethos or possibly Spires will be sublime in that room. I think the 2 woofers on the Summit may overload it and be overkill. Your cash will go further spent on a good source and superb ancillary electronics than on bigger speakers.

If you want BIG SOUND, do your basement.

Good Luck!

Thanks Dave!

But I distinctly remember my dorm room being significantly smaller than 13x16.... And the Summits were in it.

Then I placed the Summits in my new place which was 11x20 and it got lost in the size.

 

[Hocky]

eek. My ears say stay away from the Sophia.

 

[Rich]

Thanks Dave!

But I distinctly remember my dorm room being significantly smaller than 13x16.... And the Summits were in it.

Then I placed the Summits in my new place which was 11x20 and it got lost in the size.

Joey,

Your dorm room was somewhat of an anomaly and you were basically using the Summits as oversized headphones. You cannot translate that experience to a "normal" sized room. The summits can easily handle 11 x 20 or larger. I honestly don't think you worked very hard to get the best out of them in that room. As I remember, you got disillusioned pretty quickly and gave up on them. Right now I have my Summits in a 14' by 19' by 9' room and wish I had about five more feet in both length and width. The only reason it sounds as good as it does is because I have filled the room with acoustic treatments.

13' by 16' is pretty tight, but workable. I hope you plan to put some acoustic treatments in the room. Personally, I think you should spring for the basement media room that you can't afford.

 

[Gordon Gray]

The one regret I always had with my Summits is that the room was too small. I never felt I was able give them the space for them to perform optimally.

Check out Tom Dac's room. It looks like a fairly large room and I assume he's happy with your old speakers.

GG

 

[Sambob2]

Joey,

Congratulations on a very beautiful home, enjoy it! Best wishes to you and your family for many years of health and happiness together!

In reading through the posts about using the room upstairs for a listening room, here is some of my input.

Considering that it sounds like you don't want to use the basement, and if it were me in your shoes, I would make a few modifications to the room prior to the walls being sheet rocked to reduce the sound that will transmit into the adjacent room(s). I agree with another poster here that the sound will propagate from the listening room and will disturb others if they are trying to find quiet time while you're spinning your favorite tunes. The sound from your system will cause the walls to vibrate. From the opposite side of the wall, sound will propagate from the wall vibration into the next room, even if you use acoustic treatment inside the listening room. In order to alleviate the sound propagation, a double wall or at least staggered beams with insulation between would help a lot. Reference for FYI: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/room_within_a_room/

Use acoustic treatment for correcting early (first) reflections at the side walls and tame reverberation at the rear wall (Behind your seating position). In your room, since it is not large, those reflections will occur quite quickly and will cause some smearing of the sound. Use absorption on the rear wall and position your seating away from the rear wall by a few feet.

Whatever you decide on doing or not, enjoy that home!

 

[kach22i]

4th car garage, do you need it more than a dedicated listening room? Looks to be the best location with little modification.

Alternately you can bump out the fist floor library/den a little and use that room.

A second floor location would be worse than the basement.

The basement if treated properly may be your best bet now that I think about it. Just get a high enough ceiling and egress window per code.

 

[asindc]

Thanks Dave!

But I distinctly remember my dorm room being significantly smaller than 13x16.... And the Summits were in it.

Then I placed the Summits in my new place which was 11x20 and it got lost in the size.

Joey,

Your dorm room was somewhat of an anomaly and you were basically using the Summits as oversized headphones. You cannot translate that experience to a "normal" sized room. The summits can easily handle 11 x 20 or larger. I honestly don't think you worked very hard to get the best out of them in that room. As I remember, you got disillusioned pretty quickly and gave up on them. Right now I have my Summits in a 14' by 19' by 9' room and wish I had about five more feet in both length and width. The only reason it sounds as good as it does is because I have filled the room with acoustic treatments.

13' by 16' is pretty tight, but workable. I hope you plan to put some acoustic treatments in the room. Personally, I think you should spring for the basement media room that you can't afford.

My room is 11.5' x 19' and my Vantages are more than adequate in that space, to say the least.