Toooobs for Vantage ???? !!

twich54 · Nov 21, 2007

Ok gang, here's the question.......... if you were to select tube amplification for a pair of Vantage's and had to keep the budget under 5k (new) what would be your choice ?? stereo or monoblock ?

Here is my short list, I wonder if anyone has knowledge, first hand or otherwise on any of these:

1) VTL, ST-150, stereo
2) Rogue Audio, M-150, monoblock
3) Manley, 'Snapper', monoblock
4) Cary Audio, CAD120S, stereo
5) Granite Audio, 864, monoblock
6) Consonance, Cyber 800, monoblock

tonepub · Nov 21, 2007

If I had to go there, Id check out the Prima Luna 60w monos with KT88's and run em on the 2 ohm tap.... You should be able to get a pair for about 2800 bucks.

slowGEEZR · Nov 21, 2007

Dave, I'd go for the VTL or the Manley. Either is a powerhouse and sound incredible. I've listened to both of them. You know the Manley also has balanced and RCA inputs, while the VTL only has RCA. Good luck, whichever you choose.

Kaboomnash · Nov 21, 2007

For me it is an easy choice; I would check with Paulo and see if his Pathos Logos is available yet.

Or is that an integrated unit? Damn

Lee

Cherian · Nov 22, 2007

I thought all Pathos are hybrid designs with tube fronts and Fets for power.

I would also look at the Conrad Johnson MV60 and MV60SE. I love the sound of mine.

twich54 · Nov 22, 2007

tonepub said:
If I had to go there,

Jeff, I'm curious....does your quote imply that you don't like tubes against the Vantage's or that quality can't be had for under 5k ? I trust it's not the latter for that only shows ones "pretentious audiophile BS side"

Trust me my "Plinny" will not be for sale, but I am somewhat interested to hear some "Glass against the Panels" and if I can settle on a nice 5k (New Price) tube set-up that when located USED, that can be had for 50-60% of new, I just might jump on it.

Bernard · Nov 22, 2007

Dave, I know you like ARCs, so I'm surprised that you do not have any on your shortlist. There are a few on Audiogon for under $5K.

twich54 · Nov 22, 2007

Bernard said:
Dave, I know you like ARCs, so I'm surprised that you do not have any on your shortlist. There are a few on Audiogon for under $5K.

Bernard, your right, I was intially thinking for purposes of compairing on new units with a 5k max. If I do some thing along this line it would probably be a used piece. Now with that being said, again your right, there is a nice looking VT100 mkIII on the "Gon" at what I believe to be an attractive price !

I do though wonder if monoblock configuration is even more important in the tube world vs. SS.

aliveatfive · Nov 22, 2007

Dave,

If you could ever make it up to NYC, I still have my ARC VT100 III up for sale. It was never sold because just one year ago, I broke the quadriceps tendon in my right knee. I finally think I'm now capable of physically moving the thing.

Bernard · Nov 22, 2007

twich54 said:
.........I do though wonder if monoblock configuration is even more important in the tube world vs. SS.

I don't see why. If the power supply is large enough capacity-wise a stereo amp is fine, and I think ARC prides themselves on large supplies in the VT100. Of course, if that is really a concern you could buy two VT100s and bridge them

D ), but as the Vantage has a powered woofer you should not need all that power.

I like monoblocks because I can keep the speaker wires short and I don't break my back moving them.

slowGEEZR · Nov 22, 2007

Dave, if you're thinking of used, don't count out BAT; especially the VK-75. Also, I understand your desire to hear some tubes against the panels; sometimes you just want a change! I've been listening (with pleasure) to tubes for the last 10 months, but now have my transistor amp back in. I just wanted to reaquaint myself to the wonderful sound of the Krell. I'll probably listen to it for a few months and switch back to the tubed unit! It's great being able to enjoy both types of sounds.

Gordon Gray · Nov 22, 2007

Vtl150

Hi Dave,

FWIW, I auditioned the VTL in my system and sent it back. To my ears, it still had the classic tube sound, which many on this forum prefer.

Mids to die for but, again to my ears, a bit slow and somewhat uncontrolled on the bottom end. The top was also a bit mellow, which is something I could have lived with in the long run.

However, the mid / lower bass presentation was just something I could not get my arms around.

For me, the Pass Labs pushes all my buttons.

Good luck with your search.

GG

tonepub · Nov 22, 2007

twich54 said:
Jeff, I'm curious....does your quote imply that you don't like tubes against the Vantage's or that quality can't be had for under 5k ? I trust it's not the latter for that only shows ones "pretentious audiophile BS side"

Trust me my "Plinny" will not be for sale, but I am somewhat interested to hear some "Glass against the Panels" and if I can settle on a nice 5k (New Price) tube set-up that when located USED, that can be had for 50-60% of new, I just might jump on it.

I'm not crazy about tubes with the Vantage or the Summit. Mainly, because they go down to under 1 ohm in the upper frequencies and most tube amps I have tried with them have not been to my liking. That's my personal opinion and I'm surprised that Neil hasn't been on this thread yet complaining that I don't know what I'm talking about.

But that's my take on it and I suggest if you are matching a tube amp to these speakers, it's a case by case thing. Also, what I find a bit rolled off, you might think is very romantic, or you might find that last bit of midrange magic right up your alley. Also, if you have a fairly "digital" sounding CD player it might also work to your advantage. As always, system synergy is the key. So investigate, investigate.

However, When I had the Prima Luna Monoblocks in here, I notice that they had a 2 ohm tap (most tube amps only have 4 ohm taps) and they worked quite well on my Apogees, which also go down pretty low and the Vantage.

Also, they are not that ridiculously priced.

The other amp I dont mind on the Summit and Vantage is the Manley 250s, but that is about double your price range. The ARC Classic 150s can be had used for about 3-4k a pair and are also not bad.

But again, it depends on what your system and musical tastes are. Because of that low impedance bump, I always suggest a good test drive first....

Let the arguing begin!

nsgarch · Nov 22, 2007

Did you reject the McIntosh MC275? (Probably tired of hearing me praise it.

) One nice feature, is you could start with one in stereo mode (still $3700 msrp, and more than adequate, according to Vantage owners) and later, if you feel you need two*, you could run them as 180W monoblocks.

* Reasons for monoblocking the 275 include:

A larger listening room.
Change to larger panel speakers, like Summits, to hybrid Logans, or conventional 3-ways.

twich54 · Nov 22, 2007

Gents, Thanks for the feedback !

Seth - I'll PM you, so as to discuss your VT100 mkIII

Neil - I'm not 'poo-whoing' the "275" at all, in fact I got to listen to the 'V' version while a new one was being 'run in' at Overture a couple of weeks back. I suppose I need to go back have them put it up against a pair of Vantages.

Jeff - Intersting comment on the Pima Luna's, but in so far as the low impedence # for the Vantage's, it's so high in the freq range, 20khz I believe, that one, there little 'up there' and given the fact that my listening prefrence is vinyl and that I'm now in my mid-Fifties I doubt that I can hear above 15khz anyway !!

Gordon - Thanks for your observation....... could room acoustics possibly had something to do with it not pleasing you ??

Steve - a nice pair of mono-blocks would fit nicely between my Vantage's, thus leaving my "Plinny" were it is !!

tonepub · Nov 22, 2007

As I said, it's case by case. You may be just ducky with the setup.
If that's the case with your hearing and you aren't after the ultimate
in high frequency extension, then the tubes may give you the magic
you desire.

My only comment is that you get a chance to test drive it first, either
on loan from a friend, dealer or a used purchase that you can easily
resell and not lose any money...

That VT100 is a very nice amp that might be right up your alley.

Gordon Gray · Nov 22, 2007

Gordon - Thanks for your observation....... could room acoustics possibly had something to do with it not pleasing you ??

Dave,

That's what surprised me given the fact I have a pretty live room. Wood floors, lots of glass, etc.

I think Jeff may have explained it best. As we all know, personal reaction / listening bias should be a major factor in deciding what you like or don't like.

It was somewhat comical regarding my reaction to the VTL on any given night. I would listen to something one night and it sounded so friggin good, I said "I'm going to buy". On other nights (had the amp for 10 days), my reaction was "sounds OK but not engaging".

I suppose I could have done the crazy stuff people like us do. Move the speakers, swap out cables, etc. I'm a bit past that at this point in my life. Been there, done that too many times.

To summarize, given my inconsistent reaction to the overall sound over numerous hours of listening, I decided it was best that I pass.

Hope that helps.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

Gordon

tonepub · Nov 22, 2007

Here's a tube amp that I know sounds great with the Summit and Vantage:

The ARC VT130 SE....

Here's one for sale at Agon...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1200532993

The local ML rep has one of these in his living room with a REF1 preamp and a pair of Summits and it sounds fantastic! The guy is asking 3750, which is very reasonable. This amp definitely has a bit more juice than the VT100...

The big faceplate and meters may or may not be to your taste though. (I love it because it reminds me of my D-79) This ones heavy!!!

Just another thought.

Bernard · Nov 22, 2007

twich54 said:
............. I'm now in my mid-Fifties I doubt that I can hear above 15khz anyway !!............

Dave, don't automatically assume that because of age your hearing is not what it used to be. A few years ago I suffered from tinnitus (which has mercifully subsided to low levels), and after seeing the results from the audiology tests, the specialist told me that I have the hearing of a child....and I am the same age as you! When much younger I used to work in medical research labs, and was automatically a test subject for hearing tests - they were always amazed at how acute my hearing was.

BTW if anyone ever has tinnitus and needs moral support, please contact me. The first month or so was hell on earth.

jhorowitz128 · Nov 22, 2007

twich54 said:
Ok gang, here's the question.......... if you were to select tube amplification for a pair of Vantage's and had to keep the budget under 5k (new) what would be your choice ?? stereo or monoblock ?

Here is my short list, I wonder if anyone has knowledge, first hand or otherwise on any of these:

1) VTL, ST-150, stereo
2) Rogue Audio, M-150, monoblock
3) Manley, 'Snapper', monoblock
4) Cary Audio, CAD120S, stereo
5) Granite Audio, 864, monoblock
6) Consonance, Cyber 800, monoblock

Have been using the Rogue M-150's with my Aerius i's for the past 3 years. Haven't heard the others, but the Rogues are noted for their great bass control. The power tubes are very easy to bias....you don't need a multimeter. Another advantage is that they have external switches for using them in either ultralinear or triode mode. Even in triode mode, you'll get ~100 watts p/channel.
Also, aside from the Rogues, I own Manley and Cary products: all 3 companies offer world-class service. Since Rogue is located in PA, you may want to call Mark O'Brien and see if you can stop by and check out their operation. I did, and was awed by the care they give to the build of each product.
Hope this helps,
Jeff

Toooobs for Vantage ???? !!

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