System #234 (CLS)

System #234 (CLS) OLD ...Odyssey New

Martin Logan Odyssey

Krell KSA 100s

Krell KRC 3 pre

Krell Connect DAC/Server

Mit Termanator 3 Biwire

The Odyssey is a wonderful design. Its a Audiophiles speaker as it is detailed and precise. It has tight bass that is very detailed and room filling. Having spent many a hrs in front of Many ML I blindly purchased these as I heard their bigger brethren the Prodigy regularly..I did this based on my room size to woofer ratio to room gain.. WOW ! Did it pay off.. I can attest these are the single BEST ML I have sat behind in MY own room set up.. Its a joy to sit down and just "LISTEN" and not critique. I love the ability to power my own woofers in this line as the newer have powered Class D amps and that I am not as much a fan of.. Amp selection new or old is key with this line.. You better have some double down power and current . If you do you WILL be rewarded with great bass and wonderful image..

Having a few Krell amps in my room and listed to many I was not gona go back to the FPB series which I regarded as a Great amp, However; Its a tad dry compared to the older brute force KSA line with Sustain plateua biasing.. This was a blind purchase and based off recommendations of those who I trust who owned this amp. The KSA S series has always been revered for its warm big bass and tube mid range sound.. Combined with the Odyssey's its a match made in heaven.. I have heard many other amp speaker combos but none in my rooms that make you just "Listen" and enjoy.. They bass is really unbelievable as you wonder how there is no sub hooked up.. Matter of fact I own two BI polor Mirage subs. BPS400 beast that's huge twin 12 and the sibling BPS 150 twin 8 and they are not used in this system. ( The BPS 400 is relegated to HT set up with my Vandy 2ce) The twin 8 was tried and not needed ! As the tiny gain at 22 hz took away the detail of the Odyssey's own subs.. Im still playing with placement and will continue when my KPS unit gets back in my hands !

I could not be any more pleased with this room / speaker combo.. Plus they are sexy as hell ! Tall and slim with a big butt..:rocker:


Old System /Old house and room



Martin Logan CLS Ia Walnut frames Custom X over work Done by Jim Power

Custom made CLS stands . Made by me ..........

AMP: Krell FPB300c

CD-Preamp: Krell KPS 25sc

Interconnects: Silver Pure Audio Krell CAST

Mook Audio custom speaker cables.

Room Treatment . Custom Made center panel with Acusta Stuff batting and Perforated grills from Martin Logan, Corner traps also Acusta Stuff batting covered with Red burlap.

Dedicated 20 amp for CD player and Amp.


This WAS a culmination of my many years of systems. Many ribbons and panel speakers have passed by my ears. None have given me the joy of the pure sound of Martin Logan.

The CLS have taken the system to a new level. They are as coherent as you get. The detail and the transparency is second to none. They are a speaker to which all should be compared. A true legend in High End Loudspeaker design. They blended so well with my servo sub and bass is as tight as I have heard in a 2 channel system. The blending is as easy as it gets as the panels roll off their natural lows and the sub just takes over. The speed of the servo driver made a perfect match. Pressurizing the room with tight bass is a breeze. The depth of the sound stage along with the width is amazing to say the least. Its nothing to hear musicians 6 feet deep dead center.

The Krell KPS 25sc is not a cheap player by any means but, It does perform ! It has bass like any Krell with soft mid range that is almost analogue sounding. Its built like a tank with a jewelry finish. The Clear Lexan top is functional as it is cool. It turns opaque when the CD starts to block out all light ! The CAST upgrade was worth every penny. The sound went from great to unbelievable. The details and the stage depth went much further and deeper with the CAST.

The CLS stands are my design and build . They are 5/16 x 1.5 inches wide,they are powder coated with black texture and stand 8 inches high to the bottom of the panels. This brings the panel at the perfect height for a even distribution of sound. The rear brace and its stability really makes the image so much more precise. All mounting points have a rubber washer or rubber pad between to eliminate any resonances.

Glad to see your system finally got up!!! We inadvertantly skipped a couple of numbers, which explains why you're #234.....


Tom.

I should have the new stands and the new amp stands done soon. I will be posting new pictures of the system as well. The Krell synergy is as good as I have heard. Its very Analogue sounding for a digital source. Its a sweet player. Built like a tank and smooth as silk. I will be trying a few new speaker cables soon too. Not that I am unhappy but rather curious!

The stands are done and on the speakers. The pictures do not do them justice. They are coated with a textured black powder coat. The are a perfect form fallows function design. They raise them up 8 inches and brace them with the rear brace and the crossover box becomes part of the frame it self. It is mounted to the metal braces that hold the panel with rubber washers. The Panels are mounted to the stands face with a 1/4 inch rubber spacer to decouple any resonance as with the braces having rubber washers between the wood and metal. All this eliminates most of the vibrations caused by the panel. The look is just sleek and svelt. Time wise because these were proto types they took me a bit longer and the powder coating had to be redone.(I'm picky).


This I can tell you stands are a must for these speakers. As to the height that is room dependent. I still think 8 inches is the best height as puts your ears at the sweet spot on the panels. Martin Logan did not lower all their panels in all the new designs for nothing.

CLS questions

Hello C.A.P., from a fellow Michigander who is also a big fan of esl's, and a new member to this site. I liked your description of being able to hear musicians 6 feet deep, as listeners of dynamic loudspeakers probably would not understand fully until they sit down in front of a pair of properly set up esl's.
I've got a couple of quick questions if you don't mind...
1. What are the measurements (inches) of the active area of the CLS?
2. -3dB point?
3. Does the placement of the servo matter, or are the frequencies too low at the panel roll off?
4. I see you have placements marked with tape on the floor, (I assume) that you are equidistant, how far away is your listening position?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance
Steve

Liquisonic said:

Hello C.A.P., from a fellow Michigander who is also a big fan of esl's, and a new member to this site. I liked your description of being able to hear musicians 6 feet deep, as listeners of dynamic loudspeakers probably would not understand fully until they sit down in front of a pair of properly set up esl's.
I've got a couple of quick questions if you don't mind...
1. What are the measurements (inches) of the active area of the CLS?
2. -3dB point?
3. Does the placement of the servo matter, or are the frequencies too low at the panel roll off?
4. I see you have placements marked with tape on the floor, (I assume) that you are equidistant, how far away is your listening position?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance
Steve

Click to expand...

#1. 2x4 ft the panels are
#2. Acording to Martin Logan they say 35HZ to abouve 20,000 hz. However I can tell you there is bass at 35 but its down more than 3 db. That being said the bass there makes a better blend for sub
#3. Not so much with the CLS as the sub is crossed over at 45 to 50 HZ. However I have experimented with diferent areas and found some to be better. The corner picture was with my Quest speakers. The sub is located behind the listening seat about 5 feet in a corner alcove. Its as seamless as can be.
#4. No I am not equa distance. I dont like that set up its like giant headphones .The optimal for full range ESL is 1.5 times to 2 times the distance from inside edge to inside edge of panel. ML recomends this also . I am just shy of the 1.5 ratio. That being said the CLS need alot of room to breath with at least 5 to 6 feet away from the wall. and at least 20 inches from the side wall. Your up stream equipment better be sound as the CLS will reveal their weakness.

Where in MI are you located ?

Hi Chris,

Beautiful system. Maybe I can hear one of these days. I have family in Wisconsin and Michigan.

Of course, if you come to Jackson Hole or are close, you can visit me.

One thought for you to consider and I believe, for minor dollars, would be a great tweek.

Attach cones to the bottom of the stand and then have the cone points placed into something like the BDR pits or equivalent product. Should substantially decrease floor induced vibration into the x-over and speaker.

Only downside is that it will increase the vertical distance from your floor to the bottom of the speaker, albeit minor.

Also isolate the power / x-over unit on it's own set of isolation devices to decouple it from the stand that you built.

I'm confident that it will be a very worthwhile upgrade.

Send me a PM if you need some info on potential suppliers to complete the above mod.

Gordon

Thanks Gordon. Your welcome any time. I will take you up if I'm out west soon. The stands have tapped 1/4 20 threads for tiny spikes I have.( It was always my original intention, I have 5/8 spikes ) I just have been to lazy as I'm still moving them around to get every little bit out of them. I will put them on after the new panels are here next week.

The X-over box if you look has a 1/4 inch Neoprene pad that does isolate the box from vibrations.
It may work better to separate the box but while playing you get very little vibration from the top of it. Any where the stands or supports touch anything there is a Neoprene washer or pad.

Thanks, C.A.P.

I am located in Bay City, just south of the city, and north of Crow Island State Game area.
Thanks for the reply.
2 foot wide is a big panel, but I bet it sounds amazing.
I had no idea they were a 30 year old design till I did some further searching on this board, and a very cool board BTW.
I also did some research on the Rythmik site and thought that to be very informative as well. You list the sub as a custom 24 dB design, is that just the Linkwitz board or is there more to it than that? size of enclosure?
Bad choice of word (equidistant) on my part, should have just asked how far apart the CLS' were, and how far away do you sit from them.
I wonder how the amp I am currently demoing would fair, given the load/voltage swings of the panels.

Well that should do for now, and thanks again
Steve

Chris,

Would recommend that you look at the Mapleshade brass cones, which you can get in your predrilled thread size, or equivalent. The stands and speakers, not to mention you (given the amount of effort you've put forth) deserve it.

Very robust, solid brass, look very cool.

30 day money back.

Also, please do look into the BDR pucks, or equivalent, to isolate the speaker stand spikes / cones from the floor, thereby eliminating vibrations transmitting "into" the floor from the speaker.

Rich suggested that for my system after listening. Big improvement.

G

Gordon Gray said:

Chris,

Would recommend that you look at the Mapleshade brass cones, which you can get in your predrilled thread size, or equivalent. The stands and speakers, not to mention you (given the amount of effort you've put forth) deserve it.

Very robust, solid brass, look very cool.

30 day money back.

Also, please do look into the BDR pucks, or equivalent, to isolate the speaker stand spikes / cones from the floor, thereby eliminating vibrations transmitting "into" the floor from the speaker.

Rich suggested that for my system after listening. Big improvement.

G

Click to expand...

I will look into that ASAP as I planned on doing something and I'm glad you have had good luck with them. It makes it easier when others have had success. Takes the fear out of it !

Thank You !

Any Replies?

Liquisonic said:

I am located in Bay City, just south of the city, and north of Crow Island State Game area.
Thanks for the reply.
2 foot wide is a big panel, but I bet it sounds amazing.
I had no idea they were a 30 year old design till I did some further searching on this board, and a very cool board BTW.
I also did some research on the Rythmik site and thought that to be very informative as well. You list the sub as a custom 24 dB design, is that just the Linkwitz board or is there more to it than that? size of enclosure?
Bad choice of word (equidistant) on my part, should have just asked how far apart the CLS' were, and how far away do you sit from them.
I wonder how the amp I am currently demoing would fair, given the load/voltage swings of the panels.

Well that should do for now, and thanks again
Steve

Click to expand...

I see you have had your panels repaired CAP, any replies would be appreciated
Cheers , Steve

My panels are being made as we speak. The old ones are not down in DB but they are KAZOO-ing on certain notes its a sign of age too. Hair dryer can help a bit but there is only so much you can do until Father Time gets ya !
I will review the new panels when they are on and I have a few new tweaks that I will show I am doing. Most will be to help Vibration induced from the panel to the frame.

Stay tuned!

CAP,

When those new panels come in, I suggest that you have the wife or a buddy take a few pictures showing you performing the swap. There are always people asking about how to do this job.

~VDR

There already is a post about this - search is your friend. A couple of people reported doing this same thing, like Jeff Zaret, about swapping out CLS panels....

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~t...ad.php?t=5533&highlight=cls+panel+replacement

Dan , that is the Martin Logan way . Many ways to skin a cat !

Van I will post a few pics of the deal . Most people do not know that they have to come in from the back as there is a much smaller lip to get over. Plus I have tweaks to make the panels fit better and with less vibration.

C.A.P said:

Plus I have tweaks to make the panels fit better and with less vibration.

Click to expand...

Please Share

you know C.A.P you have one of my favorite systems even though I am heavy into the whole HT thing I have an appreciation for a good 2 channel sound system. yours is simple with the highest quality components the way it should be :bowdown:

Thanks Fish I try and keep it simple but with the best quality !

Swap Photos

"There are always people asking about how to do this job."

I happen to agree, and I just had a couple questions on your sub as well, If you'd be so kind Mr. CAP ;^}

Thanks in advance, Steve