Which audio firms will still be here in 20-30 years

[David Matz]

ML was recently sold and is rollling out products. Same with ARC, B&W, and Mark Levinson. As long as these companies can innovate (and have the cash for R&D), they will survive. If they provide excellent customer support, they will be around.

But how about some of the other firms that are pretty much 1 or 2 man shops, led by famous or charismatic designers - Thiel, Conrad Johson, Ayre, Wilson, Pass, etc. Most companies in the audio industry fall into this category. Will they just close shop when these guys are ready to get checked into a nursing home? Or will someone pick up the mantle?

Do you look at the age of the designer or the value of the brand when purchasing a product, or do you assume the customer support will always be there?

Which companies will be around? What do you guys think?

 

[C.A.P]

Good question. The MAN or Namesake is important but many a man has sold his name for the sake of $$$, Mark Levinson, Carver, Martin Logan, McCormick, ...
In high end Audio its not unusual to see a business go under fast. One week they are releasing a new line the next they are out of business. With todays tight economy many small high end shops and manufactures will feel the hit. luckily there is a huge demand for USA made high end products in Europe and Japan.

 

[User211]

luckily there is a huge demand for USA made high end products in Europe and Japan.

Right Chris, but they are in a terrible state too, and it is only going to get worse next year... plus the good ole yankee dollar is getting too strong for good export demand. Heaven knows why it is stronger now than is was, though.

English contenders? Quad, Naim, Meridian, Musical Fidelity, Sugden, ProAc, Spendor, Michell, Tannoy, KEF, Mission... just because they have all been around for a good long time. Not all may be English owned, but they all started out that way, as far as I am aware.

Anyone know what country B&W originated in?

 

[sleepysurf]

I think the real question is not which names will be around, but rather will the quality of the surviving brands be the same. Competition, and manufacturing costs, are driving more mainstream U.S. (and European) companies (ML included) to outsource production overseas. We'll soon get to the point where well-known brand names are really owned by multi-national companies, selling products that don't really compare to the original brand. Take Schwinn, Quad, etc as examples.

In fact, if you look at Shoreview Industries website, for both ML and Paradigm, part of their Growth Strategy includes "Pursue additional low-cost sourcing and manufacturing opportunities in Asia".
http://www.shoreviewindustries.com/portfolio/port8.htm

I bet that most of the high-end gear sold worldwide is either entirely manufactured in Asia, or has the majority of parts sourced there. At best, all we can hope for is that U.S. based companies like ML can survive, while also upholding the quality mantra their founders built those brands on.

 

[zaphod]

with 20 year warrantees, i'm sure hoping that bryston is around for a bit

 

[amey01]

I'd only be betting on companies whose name is worth more than the products they sell. In that case, whatever happens to the company, the name will still be around because of its worth.

Names such as ARC, C-J, Quad. B+W.

 

[Bernard]

Anyone know what country B&W originated in?

Is this a trick question? I always thought that Bower & Wilkins was a venerable English company. :bowdown:

 

[User211]

Nope - just a mental block.

Coo - we have some good companies! Another great one is Chapter Audio, if only because they make the first class Ds I have ever been able to listen too! Bl**dy brilliant amps, but big price tag along with them.

Chord is another goodie. Audio Note UK, Living Voice, Arcam, dCS, Roksan, Isotek, SME... not all of those will last, though.

Not bad for an island the size of a pea. Adam's point about brand names is a great one.

 

[Bernard]

Justin, you forgot Linn .... Scottish does count, does it not?

BTW I like Ivor Tiefenbrunn's famous quote, "If you have not heard it, you do not have an opinion".

 

[User211]

So that must mean there's just a chance that £5 transistor radio could sound

GREAT!

I'll never forget Isobariks. That speaker was great. But a fully spec'd LP12 is now around £10K, and I regard that as a complete joke. Funny sense of humour, these Scotts!

 

[amey01]

Adam's point about brand names is a great one.

Yep - I'll add Linn, Audio Note and SME - they don't have to be ultra-high end - just have a name that is worth a lot. Ultra high end does not necessarily define this - dCS for instance could go tomorrow and nobody would notice or care. Someone else would do what they do easily.

 

[tonepub]

ML was recently sold and is rollling out products. Same with ARC, B&W, and Mark Levinson. As long as these companies can innovate (and have the cash for R&D), they will survive. If they provide excellent customer support, they will be around.

But how about some of the other firms that are pretty much 1 or 2 man shops, led by famous or charismatic designers - Thiel, Conrad Johson, Ayre, Wilson, Pass, etc. Most companies in the audio industry fall into this category.

You're a little off base there. Wilson employs about 100 people and their plant is huge. Dave's son is being groomed to take over when he doesn't want to do it anymore..

CJ employs about 20 people and the principals are only in their late 50's early 60's, so chances are you'll be seeing Lew and Bill around for a while.
Same for BAT and even Pass Labs has a number of employees.

SME is a huge company and makes most of their money on doing high end machine shop work for the aerospace industry and various F1 racing teams. Founder Alistair passed away last year, but his son Cameron has taken over and assured us at CES last year that they are fully committed to the next generation of audiophiles and that they still carry or "Can Make" any part necessary for any SME product.

Don't really know about Theil, but Ayre is another story. They are a fairly small company and Charlie Hansen was severely injured in a bicycle accident last year and is now paralyzed from the waist down. That one could be iffy going forward.

All depends on the economy going forward and finding the right suitors...

It's the little guys like Modwright that probably won't make it.

 

[User211]

I thought CJ was way bigger than that. Just goes to show...

 

[RUR]

It's the little guys like Modwright that probably won't make it.

and that would be a pity. Not only do I covet Dan's gear, but he's a joy to talk to and a pleasure to do business with.

I visited a local amp/preamp manufacturer a couple of weeks ago. I'd rather not mention names, but you'd recognize it immediately and the company has been in business for many years. Roughly 10 employees in a 3,000-ish ft/sq facility, located in a non-descript industrial park. They said that they were quite busy and that business had picked up post-election, but it didn't look like it would take much to put the company at risk.....

 

[David Matz]

You're a little off base there. Wilson employs about 100 people and their plant is huge. Dave's son is being groomed to take over when he doesn't want to do it anymore..

CJ employs about 20 people and the principals are only in their late 50's early 60's, so chances are you'll be seeing Lew and Bill around for a while.
Same for BAT and even Pass Labs has a number of employees.

SME is a huge company and makes most of their money on doing high end machine shop work for the aerospace industry and various F1 racing teams. Founder Alistair passed away last year, but his son Cameron has taken over and assured us at CES last year that they are fully committed to the next generation of audiophiles and that they still carry or "Can Make" any part necessary for any SME product.

Don't really know about Theil, but Ayre is another story. They are a fairly small company and Charlie Hansen was severely injured in a bicycle accident last year and is now paralyzed from the waist down. That one could be iffy going forward.

All depends on the economy going forward and finding the right suitors...

It's the little guys like Modwright that probably won't make it.

I don't mean to imply these are home or garage operations a la Sanders. Most of the famous brands are thriving small and medium businesses as you point out, and it would suck really bad if they went out of business. However, in terms of vision and control, there is usually 1 or 2 guys calling the shots.

My questions are
- how many of these companies will have the brand equity to find a suitor to buy the company to continue supporting the products?
- Will the sonic signature of the new products remain the same - for better or for worse (People say ARC doesn't sound like the old ARC)? I would guess the sonic signature is at least 80% of the brand value, and customer/ dealer support is 20% or less.
- Who will continue to create new products once the founder/ owner is gone? I don't know a thing about Wilson's son. I hope he is more talented than his father. But what if his Alexandria 7 just can't cut the mustard? What happens to BAT once Victor is ready for sunny Florida?

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Don't really know about Theil, but Ayre is another story.

I do not know much when it comes to who is running a company and how they are doing, but recently I took a tour of Theil and was very impressed. They were building quite a few orders in their workshop and was even making some new experimental parts for their speakers. It looked to me and my friend that they were alive and well, not to mention plenty of ideas for the future. You could tell there was a passion for what they did and looked as if they did not see any end in sight. So, I am planning on seeing them around for a long while yet and wish them luck through these tough time.

Glen