Which Amp to buy? The most frequently asked question on this site. READ THIS!!

[TomDac]

I got this advice before I bought an amplifier to drive my giant CLSs. I bought a Wired4sound STI1000 and it is rock solid. Couldn't be happier. Of course it is a class D amp. This is where a lot of traditionalist audiophiles get a divorce with ML. They are married to their 40 wpc Class A amps and just can't drive the big electrostats.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I have a Wyred4Sound MC500 that drove my Summits VERY nicely. Sold the summits, of course, but still have the amp and it's still performing very nicely with my KEF's.

 

[Robert D]

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I have a Wyred4Sound MC500 that drove my Summits VERY nicely. Sold the summits, of course, but still have the amp and it's still performing very nicely with my KEF's.

Is this the company you guys are talking about? These amps are very affordable.

Wyred 4 Sound | Rediscover your music!

The monblocks look great on paper. SX-1000R | Wyred 4 Sound

 

[Ishaansuri]

Hi everyone. Has anyone tried the emotiva DR-2 differential amp on esl speakers. Considering it for my Classic ESL 9 .. thoughts and experiences ?

 

[Robert D]

I personally use this to power my Prodigy speakers. Works great.

http://www.aragonav.com/Titanium

 

[Ishaansuri]

I personally use this to power my Prodigy speakers. Works great.

http://www.aragonav.com/Titanium

Nice!.. Noticeable qualities for you over say xpa Gen 2 or other emotiva power amps?

 

[Robert D]

Nice!.. Noticeable qualities for you over say xpa Gen 2 or other emotiva power amps?

I've never tried those amps. I went with this amp because my dealer recommended it. I get the impression it's a different price point than Emotiva though. I think I paid around $4k for it now, can't remember. It has a nice longish warranty too. Only thing that ever went wrong was I blew a fuse once. I think that was trying to push it too hard. My panels were old and needed a lot of power to get loud.

 

[bba8rjp]

I use SX-1000R | Wyred 4 Sound with my Summit X's. I know I did not need all the power of the SX1000Rs with the powered SummitX's but got them in case I wanted to change speakers down the road. A BAT VK31SE preamp (tubes) feeds the amps. Love the sound, no matter what the source (FM , reel, vinyl, digital). The amps were an upgrade from an older Classe' CA300 (class A/B 300 watts). Much more lively, better soundstage etc. Two tweaks were: Cullen Cable Crossover power cords, and HiFi Tuning Supreme CU fuses. The Cullen power cords seem to incrementally improve everything, probably from the lowered noise floor. I was skeptical about fuses but asked both Cullen and Wyred their informal opinions and both liked my choice. So what I did was change one monoblock first, both internal and external fuses. I did the reversing direction of the fuses per the fuse instructions. Then I put the preamp into mono and used the balance to hear either left , stock fuses or right (HiFi CU). "How's that sound?" I asked my wife while I played the left, "Great she said". The I swapped to the right and replayed the same matierial. "How about now"? Still really great, but much more lifelike now". I put the new fuses in the left and have been happy ever since. Everything is still improving/breaking in after a year.

 

[MisterB]

Nice!.. Noticeable qualities for you over say xpa Gen 2 or other emotiva power amps?

Hi. I can't comment on the Aragon or Emotiva differential amps, but I've used two different Emotiva XPA's with with ESL X's and then Impression 11a's, as well as a couple other traditional box towers. The Gen 1 Emotiva - big and dynamic, but could be harsh. Great for home theater, not so great for music. The Gen 2 Emotiva was smoother, but maybe a little too laid back. Better for music than Gen 1, lacking in dynamics for home theater. I do think Emo makes good, reliable gear for the price. But at $1700 for a DR2, I would maybe look at a Rotel RB-1582. I ran a Rotel RMB-1585 with ESL X's and then Impressions for a while as part of a dual duty music/home theater setup and really liked it. Warm and dynamic sound, more than enough power. Built like a tank.

 

[Ishaansuri]

Hi. I can't comment on the Aragon or Emotiva differential amps, but I've used two different Emotiva XPA's with with ESL X's and then Impression 11a's, as well as a couple other traditional box towers. The Gen 1 Emotiva - big and dynamic, but could be harsh. Great for home theater, not so great for music. The Gen 2 Emotiva was smoother, but maybe a little too laid back. Better for music than Gen 1, lacking in dynamics for home theater. I do think Emo makes good, reliable gear for the price. But at $1700 for a DR2, I would maybe look at a Rotel RB-1582. I ran a Rotel RMB-1585 with ESL X's and then Impressions for a while as part of a dual duty music/home theater setup and really liked it. Warm and dynamic sound, more than enough power. Built like a tank.

Thanks! Interesting. I never thought of Rotel being in this price point. Definitely worth investigating. I too have the same confusion about the dr2, it's not exactly a premium audio focused brand, though yes emotiva does fantastic products and the dr2 does seems to be in a league of its own. But then long term I feel Rotel or something a bit more tried tested over decades maybe a worthwhile contender at this price point. Let me read about this. Thanks again!

 

[TomDac]

Is this the company you guys are talking about? These amps are very affordable.

Wyred 4 Sound | Rediscover your music!

The monblocks look great on paper. SX-1000R | Wyred 4 Sound

Yep. that's W4S

 

[Robert D]

Yep. that's W4S

1300 w at 4 ohms for $1300 is insane. They are audiophile quality sound? That's impressive.

 

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Is this the company you guys are talking about? These amps are very affordable.

Wyred 4 Sound | Rediscover your music!

The monblocks look great on paper. SX-1000R | Wyred 4 Sound

You can buy Icepower ASP power modules from Parts Express and build a similar amp yourself. Those amp modules are $377 each (on sale for $250 from time to time). W4S has a unique input board, but you could put a front end on it too if you wanted from diyaudio or something. Bel Canto used the same board in their Ref-1000 amps a few years ago. The original ones had a nasty pop when turned on, so Bel Canto made an input board and changed the name to the Ref-1000m. They are known for having pretty good sound though. The current gen Bel Canto switched to Hypex, too.

-Geoff

 

[Robert D]

So it sounds like class D amps do well with electrostats?

My only experience with them is using powered subs. How does the sound compare to what my Aragon amp puts out? It's class A I believe. I've never listed to one, and definitely not on electrostats.

 

[Technomad]

So it sounds like class D amps do well with electrostats?

My only experience with them is using powered subs. How does the sound compare to what my Aragon amp puts out? It's class A I believe. I've never listed to one, and definitely not on electrostats.

Some years ago I bought a complete Linn HT system (Class D). A not inexpensive system. Paired it with my then Aerius is for a few months, before deciding that they were not a happy combination. They did however work very well indeed with Linn's own speakers. Switched to Spires recently, and tried the Linn with those. Nope. So the Linn gear is now for sale and I'm on Class AB amplification (Michell & Mark Levinson), delivering a higher order of musicality altogether.

 

[john65b]

I have an ICEPower 500ASP Monoblocks and Hypex UCD400 Based amps for sale if interested...I will have to post them on the classified later...

 

[shellnut48]

I have 3 PS Audio BHK 300 monoblock amplifiers for 2 15A’s and an Illusion Center. I wish I could tell you how they sound, but my system is still being put together. Everything that I’ve read or watched suggests that I’ll be pleased. I’ll let you know.

 

[Ishaansuri]

Hi guys ..hope everyone is keeping well during this omicron surge and your friends and family are safe and healthy.

What advice would you give if I were to consider a McIntosh ma252 hybrid integrated amplifier with the ML Classic ESL 9 speakers?

This is a tube preamp with a solid state power amp in one. Their simpler unit but am curious.

One of these over say a emotiva monoblock HC-1 pair ?

 

[MisterB]

Hi guys ..hope everyone is keeping well during this omicron surge and your friends and family are safe and healthy.

What advice would you give if I were to consider a McIntosh ma252 hybrid integrated amplifier with the ML Classic ESL 9 speakers?

This is a tube preamp with a solid state power amp in one. Their simpler unit but am curious.

One of these over say a emotiva monoblock HC-1 pair ?

I am powering my Impressions with the 252’s big brother the MA352. I am enjoying it for the most part, but if I had one criticism it’s that it is not as “tubey” sounding as I had hoped. I feel like the highs are a little bright for me, and the midrange is not as warm sounding as what I associate with tube gear. Not bright to the point of fatiguing, but again not exactly what I associate with the McIntosh or tube sound. At this point I am considering swapping the integrated out for Mac tube separates, going tube preamp and tube power amp. I may first try swapping out the stock Mac tubes in the 352 for some Gold Lions and see if that improves the warmth in the mids. That said, the clarity, channel separation and imaging are pretty impressive. The combination is quite revealing, and has exposed the weaknesses in some of my sources.

I think some of the brightness comes from the fact that the MA 252/352 are direct coupled amps. They do not use the typical McIntosh autoformers. There seems to be a bit of a debate on whether or not you want direct coupled or autoformers when pairing McIntosh with Martin Logan panels. From what I’ve read, autoformers will give you more of the typical McIntosh sound - slightly rolled off highs, warmer mids. Direct coupled will give you a brighter presentation maintaining the airiness often associated with Martin Logan panels. It comes down to what you prefer.

In your case, one thing I would keep in mind is that your Classic 9’s don’t have the powered woofer system like others in the Masterpiece line, so my concern with the 252 is that it might be a little under-powered to drive both woofers and panel with its max of 160 watts at 4 ohms. Probably depends on what kind of music you typically listen to.

 

[Ishaansuri]

I am powering my Impressions with the 252’s big brother the MA352. I am enjoying it for the most part, but if I had one criticism it’s that it is not as “tubey” sounding as I had hoped. I feel like the highs are a little bright for me, and the midrange is not as warm sounding as what I associate with tube gear. Not bright to the point of fatiguing, but again not exactly what I associate with the McIntosh or tube sound. At this point I am considering swapping the integrated out for Mac tube separates, going tube preamp and tube power amp. I may first try swapping out the stock Mac tubes in the 352 for some Gold Lions and see if that improves the warmth in the mids. That said, the clarity, channel separation and imaging are pretty impressive. The combination is quite revealing, and has exposed the weaknesses in some of my sources.

I think some of the brightness comes from the fact that the MA 252/352 are direct coupled amps. They do not use the typical McIntosh autoformers. There seems to be a bit of a debate on whether or not you want direct coupled or autoformers when pairing McIntosh with Martin Logan panels. From what I’ve read, autoformers will give you more of the typical McIntosh sound - slightly rolled off highs, warmer mids. Direct coupled will give you a brighter presentation maintaining the airiness often associated with Martin Logan panels. It comes down to what you prefer.

In your case, one thing I would keep in mind is that your Classic 9’s don’t have the powered woofer system like others in the Masterpiece line, so my concern with the 252 is that it might be a little under-powered to drive both woofers and panel with its max of 160 watts at 4 ohms. Probably depends on what kind of music you typically listen to.

Hey thanks makes sense and also interesting.

I will try to get mcintosh to give me a kit to demo here with my setup and will ask for the ma352 to try as well. You're right about the woofer response needs more kick. Considering monoblocks alternatively from other brands.

On a side note, the have you tried leaning your speakers back by about 1/2inch(or more if need be?) relative to their front and see if you feel a warmer roll off. Reference this from your ideal listening position. Raise the font couplers a bit if you need height to achieve the relative rear tilt backwards and try this. Also best done when you are on included solid couplers over the rubber feet.

If the above worked a bit you can also very slightly face them both outward by about.. yes you guessed it not more than 1/2 inch .. just ESL things!

 

[Lightloopy]

I agree with Mr. B. I have and all tube system with a MC1502 with Autoformers. The mids are fast, highly detailed but definitely lean to the cooler side. That is the Mac sound for me. I like it a lot it but it is a completely different flavor from my previous system with SL3's, and VTL MB 250 (225 watts triode). That was a rich, lush, 3D midrange and as tubey as it gets. Conrad Johnson also gets high marks for a magical midrange.
Mr. B-I would suggest trying a different brand like the CJ or VTL . I believe the sound you describe -very accurately - is how the newer Mac's are generally voiced. Trust your ears