What do I listen for . . .

[rockeratheart]

Hello everyone. I'm still excited/affraid of making a decision on models and new/used. Most likely they will be used for budget/SAF reasons. When I go and demo used speakers, I know I should listen for sound quality, as it pertains to possible older panels and such. But when I search for posts that have info on what speakers would sound like when they are too big for the room, I find I'm reading, but also enjoying, for hours without finding what I really want.

When a speaker is too big for a room, what happens to make the sound bad, and what is actually bad? I want the biggest sound I can fit in my room.

I will be using these for movies and music, but mostly for music. I'll probably keep my def-tech bp30s for movies--depending on how big the sweetspot is from the MLs.

So that's it. I've learned lots from reading on this site, but I need guidance from those who know more than me about my "bigger should be better and why it might be a myth" after school special.

Thanks
Ben

 

[roberto]

Hello everyone. I'm still excited/affraid of making a decision on models and new/used. Most likely they will be used for budget/SAF reasons. When I go and demo used speakers, I know I should listen for sound quality, as it pertains to possible older panels and such. But when I search for posts that have info on what speakers would sound like when they are too big for the room, I find I'm reading, but also enjoying, for hours without finding what I really want.

When a speaker is too big for a room, what happens to make the sound bad, and what is actually bad? I want the biggest sound I can fit in my room.

I will be using these for movies and music, but mostly for music. I'll probably keep my def-tech bp30s for movies--depending on how big the sweetspot is from the MLs.

So that's it. I've learned lots from reading on this site, but I need guidance from those who know more than me about my "bigger should be better and why it might be a myth" after school special.

Thanks
Ben

Hola Ben...from the beginning, sound is a change of pressure, right? More air that we move, bigger the sound (not pressure level). Bigger sound for me means that you can be far away of any ML electrostatic speaker and you still get almost the same level. On a dynamic speaker. it does not have this super great feature. You don't have to play it too loud to have the music in all your house. You will not get any ear fatigue from ML. I have a small room and almost listen in near field, and my speakers are CLS IIz. They do sing for me!! Also I have a customer that has one pair of Request in a very small room, and his sound too is great! If you do not have any waf problem, (wife acceptance factor) then you can try all sizes and get one that you liked most. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[avtroll]

You can never have "to big of a speaker" Bigger speaker, bigger / fuller sound. Just because you have a large speaker doesnt mean you have to rail it. Especially when talking about panels, the larger the panel, the more "full range" sound you are going to get. Plus a larger dispersion.

 

[rockeratheart]

I'm liking what I hear.

Just because you have a large speaker doesnt mean you have to rail it.

What does "rail it" mean? I am quite the newbie.

When people say the bigger quest and request speakers need to be away from the front wall a bit, is that always true?

 

[Horchem1972]

Listen For???

I would listen to the great deal on the Ascents in Wilmette,IL that David Matz has for sale.400 miles is not a bad drive for that good of a deal.He is only asking $1300 on this sites classified section.I would go there and listen to them.If they are in as good of shape as they sound,buy them and never look back.Match them with a quality center channel and you are ready.If you think they are straining a little in home theater,cross them over at 80-100hz and you are good to go.I have listened to the Def Tech speakers and they are very good.I personally believe they do not produce music or home theater near as good as Martin Logan does.In the long run this is my opinion.Good Luck.:music:

 

[JonFo]

My quick thoughts on speaker size vs room size and what to listen for:

Speaker vs Room.

Pretty much any ML larger than an Aerius can fill a mid-sized room (12x16 to 18x28) with high and mid-frequency energy with no problems.
The difference is going to be in the mid-bass and bass frequencies.
Trust me, an ESL panel can output a good amount of energy, actually, usually more than an untreated room can bear.

The reason many prefer the bigger paneled speakers is that the larger panel can go lower, giving better mid-range performance.
These are also typically coupled with larger and more capable bass sections, which depending on room size, can provide more bass energy.

The problem is, all rooms have nasty room resonances and reflection issues. Therefore, the larger the speaker, the more it can energize those resonances as well.

The problem with asking what to hear for is that it is very hard to separate the room influences from the speaker influences. Some ‘chestiness’ might be the speaker, or it might be a 250Hz standing wave resonance at your seating location in that room.

My recommendation is to get a model that will not overpower the room. As an example, my Monoliths (huge speakers) were able to overpower the 15x26 room I built for them, with plenty of room resonances at various frequencies. However, once the room was acoustically treated, they are just right and play cleanly.
In my untreated room, a pair of Sequel/SL3/Ascent sized units would have been plenty.

Obviously, the best solution is to treat the room acoustically, and minimize its influences.

If you tell us your room dimensions and layout, we can better recommend both suitable models as well as possible acoustic treatments.

My final comment is: I’d rather have smaller, used units in a well treated room, than brand spanking new Summits in an untreated room.
So if allocating say, $10K to speakers, I’d spend $3 to $4K on the speakers and $6 to $7K on room treatments.
Results are guaranteed to be better than just a $10K speaker alone could do.

 

[rockeratheart]

my room layout

Here's my room layout. 14' X 24'. Fronts are on the short side. Wall on left side goes back 13' and kicks out 2 more to the back wall. The right has a door beginning 8' back, and just beyond that there's a hallway. The back right corner wall cuts with a 5' long angled corner. The very back is open, but eventually will have large double doors. Ceilings are 8'.

If I could speed up my purchase timeframe, I would certainly buy Ascents. They appear to be everything I'd want. And the price is more than reasonable.

ben

 

[Craig]

I would listen to the great deal on the Ascents in Wilmette,IL that David Matz has for sale.400 miles is not a bad drive for that good of a deal.He is only asking $1300 on this sites classified section.I would go there and listen to them.If they are in as good of shape as they sound,buy them and never look back.Match them with a quality center channel and you are ready.If you think they are straining a little in home theater,cross them over at 80-100hz and you are good to go.I have listened to the Def Tech speakers and they are very good.I personally believe they do not produce music or home theater near as good as Martin Logan does.In the long run this is my opinion.Good Luck.:music:

The Ascent speaker was an excellent deal when it was new at $4200. Nothing else in that price range could touch it. Used Ascents are typically a lot of speaker for the $ if you can find them. A local buy is good way to go on large speakers since they are not easy to ship safely.

I don't think a big speaker in a small room automatically results in poor sound. Typically the room requires some sort of treatment to sound its best unless you happen to get lucky with the room. The room is often an acoustic compromise of some sort no matter what speakers you put in there.

One advantage to large speakers is that are usually easier to drive than smaller speakers and this holds true for Martin Logans. Although, the newer MLs are much smaller these days and are a little easier to power than their older cousins.

 

[rockeratheart]

thanks

Thanks for everything. I've learned alot, and i'm working on getting the ascents.

Happy listening.

Ben

 

[JonFo]

Thanks for everything. I've learned alot, and i'm working on getting the ascents.

Happy listening.

Ben

Ben, that's a good choice for your size room.

Remember, you still need to treat the wall behind them. Plenty of threads here on room treatments.