Vista great ....vantage isn't?????

[listener666]

Hi.....newbie to the ML world:bowdown:

I have had a home dem of the vista's and they sounded o.k. with a naim pre- pwr. (good but not great)
Poor with an Esoteric inetgrated. (flat, poor sounstage little bass, very detailed but over controlled and sterile )
Great with a Pathos Logos. (magical sounstage, quite detailed,good controlled bass)
None of the above combinations had boomy bass.


I then swapped them for a pair of vantages.
They sound cluttered with the Pathos and the bass is lumpy and forced.
I then tried a Sugden A21 (i know it shouldn't) which improved everything!
I then swapped in a Sugden A21se and this sounded like the A21 only with more dynamics.
I am at a loss why the vantages just don't sound as good. (both are run in demo models) Its not just the bass, the mid range doesn't sound as silky either!

I have an excellent dealer here in the uk who is bringing the vistas back next week and hopefully a sugden masterclass to try with both.

Any ideas why the Vistas sounded soooo good and the vantages only good?

My room is 18 x 10 and I have tried umpteen cables and played with the active woofer setting for hours.

thanks

 

[twich54]

No clue whatsoever ??? Makes no sense to me why the Pathos would sound good on the Vista and not the Vantage ???? maybe your ears like the sound of Chinese made crossovers and bass assemblies better ????

 

[listener666]

thanks

that really helped

(yes i know more parts of the vistas are made in china etc etc.)


My friend (also into hifi for 20 years+) has also listened for about 10hours in total and came to a similar conclusion. Its got us beat........I have the funds for the vantages and prefer the slightly smaller footprint........I can get the panels about 3ft from the rear wall and 12 inches from the sides , they are about 8ft apart and I sit about 10 - 12ft from the speakers.

They sound slightly better with my krell kid (and ipod) than with vinyl for some reason.
Its not really bad.... just that the vista's were amazing and easily better than my previous Audionote AN -E
Help............could the vantages be defective?

 

[Beakman]

Try Moving the vantages 2 feet from the side walls and put some heavy damping on the front wall between them. The vantages have a rear port on the box, something i'm not enamored with. Corner traps are recommended, but just for S&G you can try my foamy plug method that led me to other things that improved the sound from my vantages: stuff open cell foam in the ports. it's my theory that small rooms constrict the bass (waves in the room) and interferes a lot with the midrange.

 

[twich54]

that really helped

(yes i know more parts of the vistas are made in china etc etc.)


My friend (also into hifi for 20 years+) has also listened for about 10hours in total and came to a similar conclusion. Its got us beat........I have the funds for the vantages and prefer the slightly smaller footprint?

Well, other than that, and the fact that the Vantage's have a powered bass driver, I don't know what it could be. The Vista crosses over only 50hz higher than the Vantage. Footprint is the same BTW.

Maybe there is something wrong with the Vantage's, if not, and your ears like the Vista's , great, youv'e saved yourself some money.

As far as the porting issue, they are both ported to the rear

 

[listener666]

thanks

cheers guys. I have just tried blocking the ports and it helped a bit. I have pulled them in a little and its better. My vinyl sounds good now......the i pod is a little "top and bottom"....haha...........MP3's!

I will listen to the vista's again next week and report back as I still haven't got the "magic" I had with the pathos and vista combo.

 

[Mobs]

Could the Vistas just be more *broken in* than the Vantages?

Later

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Room interaction is beyond the realm of my understanding. I understand the general guidelines and follow them. Still, sometimes a speaker energizes a room in a special way. In my tiny apartment in NYC years ago, my Thiel C.S 1.5's sounded better than anything I have ever owned at that point. When I moved, the speakers were not even close to sounding so righteous. I truly love my Vantages. Break in is an excellent point. When I first got mine, they were somewhat thin. Honestly took about a month. I suppose that could be adapting to the speakers. I will say that if the bass is not integrated, the midrange will suffer. Satan listener, what speakers were you using prior? At least for me, the speaker prior has an impact on my impression of what comes after. If the Vista's do it for you, run with it. My salesmen preferred the Vista over the Vantage as well.
Cheers,
M.L

 

[listener666]

last speakers

My last speakers were Audio Note AN- E /lx. I liked them:music:

They sounded great in this room ( but as you pointed out (different rooms)..............they were very warm sounding in the last room!)

I have loaned another two amps. An Audio Analogue Maestro (weighs 110 lbs and nearly killed me!) It must need warming up as it sounds flat .....but very well controlled , NO bass boom.
The other is a Musical fidelity KW500 which sounds superb after an hour! The boom has gone and the sound stage is good.

Should get the vistas back in a week or two and make a decision from there.

What really puzzled me was how well the Pathos worked with the Vistas and how poor it was with the vantages!

 

[Rich]

What really puzzled me was how well the Pathos worked with the Vistas and how poor it was with the vantages!

It could be that the signal from the Pathos didn't match well with the internal amp of the Vantages, but was able to power the woofer and panels of the Vistas with no problem.

I noticed once in auditioning an Anthem amp with the Vantages and comparing it to a Sunfire amp that the difference between the two on bass response was night and day. The Sunfire sounded great and the Anthem sounded horrible. I believe that the circuitry of the Vantage that takes the signal and sends it to the internal woofer amp just doesn't play well with certain types of amplifiers. Since the Vista doesn't have an internal woofer amp, it would not present the same issue.

 

[SteveInNC]

I'll also add that perhaps the Vantage is presenting a more-difficult load to the amplifier than the Vistas. One indication of this is your statement indicating that the Musical Fidelity KW500 was doing a good job. Musical Fidelity emphasizes their current-handling capabilities, with stability while driving loads like stat panels. By way of example, Logans can get down to 0.8 ohms at higher frequencies. I use a MF A5 Integrated to drive Ascent "i"s. It's much more controlled than a different brand but much more powerful (in terms of watts) solid state amp I was using before that.

 

[listener666]

yes ...good point

It could be that the signal from the Pathos didn't match well with the internal amp of the Vantages, but was able to power the woofer and panels of the Vistas with no problem.

I noticed once in auditioning an Anthem amp with the Vantages and comparing it to a Sunfire amp that the difference between the two on bass response was night and day. The Sunfire sounded great and the Anthem sounded horrible. I believe that the circuitry of the Vantage that takes the signal and sends it to the internal woofer amp just doesn't play well with certain types of amplifiers. Since the Vista doesn't have an internal woofer amp, it would not present the same issue.

Yes good points and I think their must be something in it.
I hadn't really thought of that....the pathos / vista combo was pretty stunning !

The KW500 is sounding good very deep and controlled......not sure if it has has the magic of the pathos / vista....but time will tell.

Not sure what to make of the Audio Analogue Maestro.....its ....its.....erm....BIG and...erm....erm...HEAVY.....but it dosn't sound like that!
Its very very controlled and uncluttered in the bass (you can follow everything thats going on.......BUT apart from percussion nothing is very projected ....at all .....its very ....erm sort of flat.... and you want to turn it up all of the time.

I will
give it a week though ..cause through experience I know that what blows your socks off initially is not always best in the long run. Thats probably why lots of us chose ML.....its very much music and less HIFI ...well IMHO anyway.