The risks of exploration, unknown!

[Big Dog RJ]

Greetings from down unda.
Just thought I'd share a few thoughts, especially after this incident. As usual on my travels, I bumped into a kid, no more than 5yrs old. He was in that "why" stage...
So as we got talking on the topic of submarines... the covo ended with the recent tragedy of Ocean Gates Titan (expedition to the wreckage of the Titanic). The depth was around 3200m approx. 4km... he asked me one question, "why?" The only viable answer I could think of was that those who went exploring really wanted to go exploring! They wanted it so bad, they just had to go out there no matter what. So during the next cocktail party they could actually say, yeah I went and saw the Titanic! Beat that...

There were several warnings about this depth, such that this kind of depth had not been tested before. Various warning signs were out there and every single authority of the search and rescue mission said this was very risky and avoidable. Just like the Titanic! The captain never listened to his crew and thought the Titanic was unsinkable... but it wasn't.

Billionaire Shazad Dawood and his teenage son Sulaiman also perished, along with another Billionaire from Britain and the rest of the crew, comprising of a former Naval officer and scientist. I'm not sure what's up with the Billionaires... I guess no matter how much money you have in the world, it will never buy happiness. $250grand for a damn ticket to the depths... which is never guaranteed in this case. Do you really need to spend that kind of money? If I had that kind of money, I know what I'll do with 250grand... pay off the damn mortgage! No, not hi-fi!

The kid, Sulaiman, teenage son of Billionaire S Dawood, apparently didn't ever want to join this expedition, knowing the risks. Even he could sense that it was pretty stupid and risky but he didn't want to let down his dad, so he just rolled with it. Poor kiddo never made it. BTW, the Dawood family is from Rah's corner of the woods, Pakistan. Perhaps he can give us more insight as to why these two people wanted to go there so badly.

Life's lessons:
1. Be satisfied and content with what you have! If it's good then it's certainly good enough!
2. Know the risks and learn all factors before divulging in such situations. If the bloody warning signs are out there ringing off all the bells & whistles then why risk it.
3. Listen to the kids! When they ask why... stop and listen as to why... then it may actually make sense.

What a sad and tragic ending, most certainly a terrible way to go.

Bless you all and keep safe, and most of all enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[ML4Life]

This was a needless addition.

 

[Robert D]

The father and son here were aboard. He was terrified of going on but his father convinced him to go. Such a horrible loss. The sub company had been warned by other experts that what they were doing was dangerous but they did not listen.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Correct! And as James Cameron said, nearly a century after, this submersible perished nearly at the exact same place! Just a few 100m from the Titanic wreck... how ironic.
When the warning signs are out there, why rusk it? I simply can't understand why.
RJ

 

[Robert D]

How deep is the Titanic? Quick video shows.

https://gettr.com/post/p2kgda03a40

 

[Leporello]

What a sad and tragic ending, most certainly a terrible way to go.

When I heard it was determined the vessel imploded, immediately killing its occupants, I was relieved. Imagine being trapped on the bottom of the ocean as your oxygen runs out, desperately banging on the hull hoping a rescuer would pick it up on their sonar. Much better way to go, I think.

 

[Leporello]

While going on a high risk (or even medium risk) exploration voyage, for $1/4 million, or for free, is absolutely not my thing, I think I get why someone would do it: "because it was there.."blah blah blah. People have been doing high risk exploration--of the far corners of the world, of high peaks, deep ocean, outer space, etc.--since recorded history. Plenty didn't make it, plenty have advanced the knowledge of mankind.

As for rich people putting up money, much more frivolous things have been bought with that kind of money: jewelry, coins, stamps comic books, bottles of wine. Let's not even talk about insanely priced speaker cables and interconnects. The US government is not about to fund that kind of exploration. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, after the expensive Coast Guard rescue operation, there isn't pressure to reduce the Coast Guard budget (though it's probably too tightly tied to the Navy, and the defense budget in general to mess with).

 

[Robert D]

When I heard it was determined the vessel imploded, immediately killing its occupants, I was relieved. Imagine being trapped on the bottom of the ocean as your oxygen runs out, desperately banging on the hull hoping a rescuer would pick it up on their sonar. Much better way to go, I think.

I did read a story where James Cameron said that the hull had sensors that would alert them if it was in danger of being crushed and alarms go off. He also mentioned that the sub had dropped what he called sinking weights, which would indicate that they were trying to ascend.

 

[Robert D]

While going on a high risk (or even medium risk) exploration voyage, for $1/4 million, or for free, is absolutely not my thing, I think I get why someone would do it: "because it was there.."blah blah blah. People have been doing high risk exploration--of the far corners of the world, of high peaks, deep ocean, outer space, etc.--since recorded history. Plenty didn't make it, plenty have advanced the knowledge of mankind.

As for rich people putting up money, much more frivolous things have been bought with that kind of money: jewelry, coins, stamps comic books, bottles of wine. Let's not even talk about insanely priced speaker cables and interconnects. The US government is not about to fund that kind of exploration. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, after the expensive Coast Guard rescue operation, there isn't pressure to reduce the Coast Guard budget (though it's probably too tightly tied to the Navy, and the defense budget in general to mess with).

Hopefully the company running the exploration explained the dangers to them. The customer has to place a lot of trust in who is running the operation. We all do it whenever we get on a roller coaster. Every once in awhile there will be an accident and a coaster derails etc, and someone dies. Everything has risks. I just hope that customers going down in that sub understood the extreme risk they were taking. Can you imagine having been in the group that went down before this group did? That would be scary knowing that it could have been you.
I wonder how much time separated the two trips. What kind of maintenance should have been done after each trip. It reminds me a bit of the space shuttle challenge disaster. In that case I think it was leaky o rings.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

While going on a high risk (or even medium risk) exploration voyage, for $1/4 million, or for free, is absolutely not my thing, I think I get why someone would do it: "because it was there.."blah blah blah. People have been doing high risk exploration--of the far corners of the world, of high peaks, deep ocean, outer space, etc.--since recorded history. Plenty didn't make it, plenty have advanced the knowledge of mankind.

As for rich people putting up money, much more frivolous things have been bought with that kind of money: jewelry, coins, stamps comic books, bottles of wine. Let's not even talk about insanely priced speaker cables and interconnects. The US government is not about to fund that kind of exploration. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, after the expensive Coast Guard rescue operation, there isn't pressure to reduce the Coast Guard budget (though it's probably too tightly tied to the Navy, and the defense budget in general to mess with).

Purchasing insanely priced speaker cables does NOT put yours or anyone's life in danger, seriously mate?
High end audio is not a life & death situation, and as far as I'm aware, anyone who's purchased 6 figures of gear is still alive and enjoying their music! So no one died...

The point I was trying to make is; this particular expedition was well known to have all the associated risks. Depth, ascend/ descend, extreme pressure factors, the ware&tare on the hull, the given time to resurface, the amount of oxygen required, the amount of oxygen in reserve if a situation arises... etc. Knowing these things they were simply ignored! And yet they dived in. Heck! Even the 19yr old son of one of those billionaires realised it's a stupid event.
These types of risks have nothing to do with highend audio.

It's actually the other way around mate, it's the love of music and the passion for high quality gear that holds our sanity together! If not for our passions, we'd all go crazy and start stabbing or bombing people. Take a look at Putin... clearly doesn't enjoy the music!

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Leporello]

Hopefully the company running the exploration explained the dangers to them.

They had to sign waivers explaining the dangers in detail, according to what I've read.

 

[Leporello]

Purchasing insanely priced speaker cables does NOT put yours or anyone's life in danger, seriously mate?
High end audio is not a life & death situation, and as far as I'm aware, anyone who's purchased 6 figures of gear is still alive and enjoying their music! So no one died...

The point I was trying to make is; this particular expedition was well known to have all the associated risks. Depth, ascend/ descend, extreme pressure factors, the ware&tare on the hull, the given time to resurface, the amount of oxygen required, the amount of oxygen in reserve if a situation arises... etc. Knowing these things they were simply ignored! And yet they dived in. Heck! Even the 19yr old son of one of those billionaires realised it's a stupid event.
These types of risks have nothing to do with highend audio.

It's actually the other way around mate, it's the love of music and the passion for high quality gear that holds our sanity together! If not for our passions, we'd all go crazy and start stabbing or bombing people. Take a look at Putin... clearly doesn't enjoy the music!

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

I didn't even intend to raise the issue of high end audio except that people make their own choices about what to do with their money.

If you've studied the space shuttle disasters at all, you know they were ringing off the hook with dangers. The astronauts, including the civilians, were aware of the risks involved, though none of them were ever briefed about the o-ring issue. The Titan passengers were probably much more aware. Either way, people make their own decisions about risks they want to take.

I absolutely agree about enjoying tunes. I am content spending much of my life doing that. About the riskiest thing I've ever done is bicycling. And despite two pretty serious accidents, I will never give that up until I have to!

Yes, shame about Pooty-poot. And so much great Russian music to enjoy. I was going to add that taking risks to explore outer space or the deep sea is more beneficial to mankind than to fight in a war. I've even heard almost, though not quite convincing arguments, against fighting wars that seemed necessary, like WW II. And whatever the US and its allies do, the Ukrainians almost down to a person are willing to fight to the death to avoid Russian domination. I hate the daily news reports about all the bloodshed on both sides, as if it were a sports event, but I don't think he should get away with taking over a country.

 

[Robert D]

They had to sign waivers explaining the dangers in detail, according to what I've read.

I just hope that they made plain just how dangerous it was. I'm sure that part of the agreement was to give up your rights to form a law suit. I think if the families could prove negligence, then they could sue if desired.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

The more you read about this incident the worse it gets.

There were HUGE lapses in safety that were well known and documented but they pushed straight ahead anyway. The manufacturer of the carbon fiber hull had even stated to the submersible company that the material is only suitable for a single dive as it will degrade from the pressure over time. The carbon hull was something like 6" thick but also was not made in a vacuum chamber or an autoclave but in an open warehouse and that just scares the **** out of me. The viewport on the front of the sub was apparently only rated for 1400 meters when diving to over 4000.

There's a laundry list of sketchy stuff that went on during the construction of this sub and it's a big part of the reason why the entire internet is roasting the expedition. The company that owned the submersible were told it would fail, multiple times by multiple people.

 

[Robert D]

 

[Robert D]

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I didn't even intend to raise the issue of high end audio except that people make their own choices about what to do with their money.

If you've studied the space shuttle disasters at all, you know they were ringing off the hook with dangers. The astronauts, including the civilians, were aware of the risks involved, though none of them were ever briefed about the o-ring issue. The Titan passengers were probably much more aware. Either way, people make their own decisions about risks they want to take.

I absolutely agree about enjoying tunes. I am content spending much of my life doing that. About the riskiest thing I've ever done is bicycling. And despite two pretty serious accidents, I will never give that up until I have to!

Yes, shame about Pooty-poot. And so much great Russian music to enjoy. I was going to add that taking risks to explore outer space or the deep sea is more beneficial to mankind than to fight in a war. I've even heard almost, though not quite convincing arguments, against fighting wars that seemed necessary, like WW II. And whatever the US and its allies do, the Ukrainians almost down to a person are willing to fight to the death to avoid Russian domination. I hate the daily news reports about all the bloodshed on both sides, as if it were a sports event, but I don't think he should get away with taking over a country.

Ok, fair point mate.
What a disaster though, from a search & rescue mission... to a search & recover mission but recover what? They were all blown to bits, which have now been released saying they found human remains. As to what's exactly remaining is unclear. I would have thought there wouldn't be any remains, considering the depth of 4000m.

Not initially responding to the implosion that was picked up by a Naval military ship and continuing with the search, claiming all sorts of things, like banging noises coming from below and so, is just ludicrous! They were searching just for the heck of it, knowing that disaster had struck days much earlier. That I simply cannot understand, and this one really takes the cake.

Sure there are risks everywhere all around us but there are also the known and unknown factors. In this expedition they were well aware of the risks but the unknown was their actual intelligence to make the right decisions. Sadly at the end of the day, ego & pride had to win over life & death but it didn't go well either way. Definitely a life lesson for all. This is one of those you won't forget, especially considering the topic of the Titanic wreckage. A bizarre tragic ending.

RJ

 

[Robert D]

Ok, fair point mate.
What a disaster though, from a search & rescue mission... to a search & recover mission but recover what? They were all blown to bits, which have now been released saying they found human remains. As to what's exactly remaining is unclear. I would have thought there wouldn't be any remains, considering the depth of 4000m.

Not initially responding to the implosion that was picked up by a Naval military ship and continuing with the search, claiming all sorts of things, like banging noises coming from below and so, is just ludicrous! They were searching just for the heck of it, knowing that disaster had struck days much earlier. That I simply cannot understand, and this one really takes the cake.

Sure there are risks everywhere all around us but there are also the known and unknown factors. In this expedition they were well aware of the risks but the unknown was their actual intelligence to make the right decisions. Sadly at the end of the day, ego & pride had to win over life & death but it didn't go well either way. Definitely a life lesson for all. This is one of those you won't forget, especially considering the topic of the Titanic wreckage. A bizarre tragic ending.

RJ

It really sounds like that carbon fiber hull could only sustain so much exposure to the pressure of those depths, and that after a certain number of dives it should have been permanently decommissioned. He should have had a 2nd new sub ready to take over service from the old one. Many parts on the sub could have been reused, but that hull was shot.

 

[Robert D]

Not initially responding to the implosion that was picked up by a Naval military ship and continuing with the search, claiming all sorts of things, like banging noises coming from below and so, is just ludicrous! They were searching just for the heck of it, knowing that disaster had struck days much earlier. That I simply cannot understand, and this one really takes the cake.


RJ

They are saying the reason for continuing the search is because they didn't know 100% that the sub was crushed, and they didn't report the implosion sound because they wanted the morale of searchers to be high.

https://www.insider.com/titanic-sub-why-huge-search-despite-navy-detecting-implosion-2023-6

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's correct. In fact speaking of the hull... apparently there was a major design flaw. At such depths, the industry standard is supposed to be somewhere around 7 inches or more. In this particular case with the use of exotic materials, carbon fibre and titanium, the hull was just 5 inches... so that itself was a disaster to begin with.
And the list goes on... like one member stated, a laundry list but it was never followed, and the consequences were quite obvious.