The Return to Vinyl

[BDH55]

I thought this article would be of interest to not only the vinyl lovers out here... but maybe even those that don't appreciate vinyl. The author seems to raise some good points about the music industry as a whole. Credit goes to The Absolute Sound blog. Enjoy...

I Return to Vinyl After 34 Years

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I think vinyl has things about it that could improve a listening experience for some people. Taking a walk down nostalgia lane selecting an album touching it and possibly committing to listening to a whole side, taking precious care of it like a fragile object and then sitting down to listen to it. For some people that makes the experience no matter the sound quality compared to a high resolution file.

I've admitted before that I will sometimes bounce around through songs not always letting a song finish because of how easy that is.

Personally, I've ripped all my CD's to lossless FLAC's, and have numerous high res files. I may never use physical media to listen to music again. I gave my last turn table away years ago and my CD's are simply a hard copy backup of the music I own that I could rip again if need be.

But this is not a right or wrong things. It's just doing what you consider fun. To me vinyl and even CD's now are not worth the effort of ever touching again, but that is simply an opinion. More power to anyone who enjoys that process as part of the listening experience.

 

[Robert D]

I think vinyl has things about it that could improve a listening experience for some people. Taking a walk down nostalgia lane selecting an album touching it and possibly committing to listening to a whole side, taking precious care of it like a fragile object and then sitting down to listen to it. For some people that makes the experience no matter the sound quality compared to a high resolution file.

I've admitted before that I will sometimes bounce around through songs not always letting a song finish because of how easy that is.

Personally, I've ripped all my CD's to lossless FLAC's, and have numerous high res files. I may never use physical media to listen to music again. I gave my last turn table away years ago and my CD's are simply a hard copy backup of the music I own that I could rip again if need be.

But this is not a right or wrong things. It's just doing what you consider fun. To me vinyl and even CD's now are not worth the effort of ever touching again, but that is simply an opinion. More power to anyone who enjoys that process as part of the listening experience.

Yeah, I dont think I will go back to records again. I grew up with them but dont want to mess with it all again. Storing all the records, finding them, upkeep of them, etc. Some people I think enjoy that part of it, but for me it would be a pain I think. I like just streaming everything. Storage is easy and its so fast to access etc.

I do miss the smell or records though!

 

[amey01]

Interesting article. Yes, I like vinyl, I truly do. I have two turntables I love the process and connection to the music it gives too. But I'm not kidding myself that it sounds better than a high res file. Ultimately, vinyl would be less than 5% of my listening.

 

[JLasher22443]

Great Read! But someone needs to tell him about Roon and Discogs. LOL Roon gives you all of the album details and Discogs can get you any album as long as you have the money. LOL

As for me; I love Vinyl and I'll never give it up even tho I just found it a few years ago. I've always loved music and always have listened since I was a kid. Yah streaming is great and my system does it well, but streaming doesn't always beat a great pressing of an album or an awesome Redbook CD. IMHO. The recording is key and that recording could be phenomenal on Vinyl, ReelToReel, HiRes or Redbook and be horrible on the other format. I think Paul put it best here.



Take the album I just got about a month ago; Couldn't Stand the Weather by Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble. I got the 45 pressing from Analog Productions and it is amazing! I also have the DSD64 download from HDTracks along with the Qobuz and Tidal versions at 192kHz 24bit. In my opinion the Vinyl sounds better and provides more detail than the other formats; at least in my system and with my ears it does. LOL The files seem compressed or missing something in the music that is just captured in that Vinyl pressing. I'm no engineer so maybe someone can explain it better but its definitely missing something whether done by compression or another anomaly. I for one can't explain or understand this but noticed it when I recorded both versions for a comparison video I did. The 45rpm Vinyl was a longer listen and had more details in the pressing than the digital files. As I tried to get the tracks to overlap they would slowly separate from each other in time. The 45 would be playing almost more at speed and what I assume to be production; while the digital sped up just a little as if compressed and not as much music to be played? Again I have no idea. Not sure if that makes sense or not but here are some images.

The Start of both tracks, 45 vinyl on top and Streaming on bottom.

Here is the tracks at around 2:20 and you can see both start to separate in alignment by almost a second.

Then at the end of the track they are off each other by a few seconds. This tells me the 45 is providing a bit more info? Maybe not night and day difference but enough to make me agree with my ears and say that the vinyl sounds a bit better than the digital format. Again I wish I knew why they are different.

Now there are draw backs for me on Vinyl. One being the pops and clicks you get with some albums; but not all albums. That has improved in my room by wet cleaning the albums before listening and getting a much quieter phono preamp. But they are still there and you don't get that with streaming. Next is sometimes I buy an album for say 2 songs but do have to listen to all the other songs I'm not a fan of. That is a plus for streaming. However that is also a minus for streaming because I find myself also finding tracks I would have never heard if I had streamed the song and skipped the rest of the album.

All in all I love both and I'll keep both in the system. Sorry for the long post but maybe one of you can explain why or what I am missing in these recordings? Thanks.

 

[Tmort]

It wouldn’t take much for a slight speed variation (from the design speed) on the turntable to make it be off by a couple seconds over the course of a few minutes long recording. No?

 

[JLasher22443]

It wouldn’t take much for a slight speed variation (from the design speed) on the turntable to make it be off by a couple seconds over the course of a few minutes long recording. No?

That's true never thought about that. And with the VPI Prime and its design I could have the motor too close or too far away which could change the timing? Yah never thought of that. Good Observation.

 

[Victor]

JLasher, for fun, I did a similar experiment years ago, running one side of Tubular Bells (about 26 mins duration) against the CD in real time.
At the end, the difference in duration was less than 100 milliseconds.
Can’t recall which was “fastest”, i.e. which “won the race”. I think it was the CD.
Of course, none of this proves that either was 100% true

I would expect the CD to be more accurate, in terms of duration even compared to DD, but the context at the time was that I was annoyed at some analogue enthusiasts on A’Gon waxing lyrical about the success of the Sutherland Timeline “test” in relation to DD turntables (esp Technics).
Essentially, it was a crude attempt to show that today’s Belt Drives can be speed accurate too(!)

I think I was reasonably successful…? ;D

 

[BDH55]

I think vinyl has things about it that could improve a listening experience for some people. Taking a walk down nostalgia lane selecting an album touching it and possibly committing to listening to a whole side, taking precious care of it like a fragile object and then sitting down to listen to it. For some people that makes the experience no matter the sound quality compared to a high resolution file.

I've admitted before that I will sometimes bounce around through songs not always letting a song finish because of how easy that is.

Personally, I've ripped all my CD's to lossless FLAC's, and have numerous high res files. I may never use physical media to listen to music again. I gave my last turn table away years ago and my CD's are simply a hard copy backup of the music I own that I could rip again if need be.

But this is not a right or wrong things. It's just doing what you consider fun. To me vinyl and even CD's now are not worth the effort of ever touching again, but that is simply an opinion. More power to anyone who enjoys that process as part of the listening experience.

You raise some valid points, and could part of my vinyl enjoyment just be the nostalgia? Sure, as my very first system only had a single source... a Pioneer PL15D turntable that fed a Pioneer 40 wpc integrated amp and Infinity speakers (I think). That was in I'd guess, 1972... It served me well in my last couple years of high school, then followed me down to Ohio State where it also was fun. I still have every album I've ever purchased, although as you mentioned, at this point some of my old beat up college albums are more about the jacket. Part of what I love is playing an album side or hopefully, both sides in one single session. It just seems to me that that is how the artist wanted me to hear their music. Like everyone else, there may be a track that I wasn't really a fan of, but of course, no one had the convenience of just hitting a key on a remote and you were off to the next song (or once CD changers came along, off to the next artist).

As the industry has changed, so have I... getting up to flip an album to the B-side isn't so easy... the eyes don't see as well to align the needle... and the hands just aren't as steady as they used to be. Plus I have to clean my albums... store my albums, etc. It's certainly much easier to just sit in my comfy chair with the lights out, and anything I can dream up can usually be playing through my ML's within seconds.

I think I would say that I enjoy streaming music for the convenience, and I enjoy listening to vinyl for the experience. I enjoy both depending on how much time I have and the mood I'm in. Maybe with vinyl it is just the nostalgia, and if so, I think I am okay with that...

 

[BDH55]

Great Read! But someone needs to tell him about Roon and Discogs. LOL Roon gives you all of the album details and Discogs can get you any album as long as you have the money. LOL

As for me; I love Vinyl and I'll never give it up even tho I just found it a few years ago. I've always loved music and always have listened since I was a kid. Yah streaming is great and my system does it well, but streaming doesn't always beat a great pressing of an album or an awesome Redbook CD. IMHO. The recording is key and that recording could be phenomenal on Vinyl, ReelToReel, HiRes or Redbook and be horrible on the other format. I think Paul put it best here.



Take the album I just got about a month ago; Couldn't Stand the Weather by Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble. I got the 45 pressing from Analog Productions and it is amazing! I also have the DSD64 download from HDTracks along with the Qobuz and Tidal versions at 192kHz 24bit. In my opinion the Vinyl sounds better and provides more detail than the other formats; at least in my system and with my ears it does. LOL The files seem compressed or missing something in the music that is just captured in that Vinyl pressing. I'm no engineer so maybe someone can explain it better but its definitely missing something whether done by compression or another anomaly. I for one can't explain or understand this but noticed it when I recorded both versions for a comparison video I did. The 45rpm Vinyl was a longer listen and had more details in the pressing than the digital files. As I tried to get the tracks to overlap they would slowly separate from each other in time. The 45 would be playing almost more at speed and what I assume to be production; while the digital sped up just a little as if compressed and not as much music to be played? Again I have no idea. Not sure if that makes sense or not but here are some images.

The Start of both tracks, 45 vinyl on top and Streaming on bottom.

View attachment 22417

Here is the tracks at around 2:20 and you can see both start to separate in alignment by almost a second.

View attachment 22420

Then at the end of the track they are off each other by a few seconds. This tells me the 45 is providing a bit more info? Maybe not night and day difference but enough to make me agree with my ears and say that the vinyl sounds a bit better than the digital format. Again I wish I knew why they are different.

View attachment 22419

Now there are draw backs for me on Vinyl. One being the pops and clicks you get with some albums; but not all albums. That has improved in my room by wet cleaning the albums before listening and getting a much quieter phono preamp. But they are still there and you don't get that with streaming. Next is sometimes I buy an album for say 2 songs but do have to listen to all the other songs I'm not a fan of. That is a plus for streaming. However that is also a minus for streaming because I find myself also finding tracks I would have never heard if I had streamed the song and skipped the rest of the album.

All in all I love both and I'll keep both in the system. Sorry for the long post but maybe one of you can explain why or what I am missing in these recordings? Thanks.

I thought your video with Paul was spot on (and even though I follow him, I had missed that one, so thanks)!

My only real comment here is on the 45 rpm albums. I own a bunch of the 45 rpm Blue Note reissues and while I love the sound, I hate not hearing the whole album side together! Plus, at least for me, it's just a hassle to have to get up and flip an album after one track...

 

[amey01]

I hate not hearing the whole album side together! Plus, at least for me, it's just a hassle to have to get up and flip an album after one track...

Vinyl is all about hassle isn't it? It is not hassle - it is "connection", right? ......if you don't want to get up to attend to the record, you need a music server

I have a few 45RPMs as well.

 

[msimanyi]

I considered doing an “inexpensive” vinyl setup early in the pandemic, but after tallying all the costs for preamps, cleaning systems, tonearms, cartridges, interconnects and oh yeah, the table itself it quickly surpassed $10k, so I decided to try streaming.

I’m exceptionally happy with that choice so far, but I completely respect and appreciate a good vinyl system and collection.

 

[JLasher22443]

I considered doing an “inexpensive” vinyl setup early in the pandemic, but after tallying all the costs for preamps, cleaning systems, tonearms, cartridges, interconnects and oh yeah, the table itself it quickly surpassed $10k, so I decided to try streaming.

I’m exceptionally happy with that choice so far, but I completely respect and appreciate a good vinyl system and collection.

Well I can tell you from experience that $10k is a really expensive "inexpensive" starter setup. Most of the guys on here that have been around Vinyl for years recommended entire setups for my first TT for less then $5k if I remember correctly. So saying at a minimum it will cost you $10k is a better setup then I started with and my first TT setup was a VPI Prime.

Just going to Upscale Audio's site and purchasing the Best Sellers on their site for each item needed this is what you come up with for price.

VPI SUPER PRIME SCOUT W/ 10.5" TONEARM & VTA ON THE FLY W/ Ortofon 2m Bronze: = $3499
Manley Labs Chinook Special Edition MkII Black Phonostage = $2899
Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner - $1049
VPI JMW Tonearm Cable 1 Meter - $345

Total = $7,792 And you could go with a Phonostage that is half that price like the Sutherland KC Vibe and be closer to $6k.

So not trying to stir the pot but $10k for a TT Setup is actually a kick *** system. Just my two cents.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Vinyl is all about hassle isn't it? It is not hassle - it is "connection", right? ......if you don't want to get up to attend to the record, you need a music server

I have a few 45RPMs as well.

Music Server !!!!!!! For all your owned uncompressed music.

Stream the rest!

 

[BDH55]

Well I can tell you from experience that $10k is a really expensive "inexpensive" starter setup. Most of the guys on here that have been around Vinyl for years recommended entire setups for my first TT for less then $5k if I remember correctly. So saying at a minimum it will cost you $10k is a better setup then I started with and my first TT setup was a VPI Prime.

Just going to Upscale Audio's site and purchasing the Best Sellers on their site for each item needed this is what you come up with for price.

VPI SUPER PRIME SCOUT W/ 10.5" TONEARM & VTA ON THE FLY W/ Ortofon 2m Bronze: = $3499
Manley Labs Chinook Special Edition MkII Black Phonostage = $2899
Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner - $1049
VPI JMW Tonearm Cable 1 Meter - $345

Total = $7,792 And you could go with a Phonostage that is half that price like the Sutherland KC Vibe and be closer to $6k.

So not trying to stir the pot but $10k for a TT Setup is actually a kick *** system. Just my two cents.

My 'second' was a Rega P3 with a Rega Elys cartridge and the tonearm cable (I think it was $995, but maybe it was $1195)... a NAD something phono stage ($200-250)... and a SpinClean manual record cleaner ($99)... so there you go for just over $1500! It was absolutely awesome and quite the upgrade from my 'first' which was a Pioneer PL15D with unknown cartridge, and a Discwasher record brush I bought in around 1972 for probably $100-150 max!