Solid State Power Amp for Impression 11A speakers

[Robert D]

Here is the X350.8 at an Australian dealer.

Basically......we take the "normal" price, and double it.

https://www.classaaudio.com.au/mono...3-pass-labs-x3508-stereo-power-amplifier.html
To be fair though we need to factor in:

Exchange rate
GST
Lower volume due to lower population
Rigourous consumer laws in Australia (which we do benefit from because they protect us) can add slightly to the price.

So I'd come up with about $24,000 - $25,000 as a fair price, leaving about $2,000 - $3,000 as "Australia Tax".

Wow, living in the US, that's crazy to me. I'm very glad we don't have that here. A lot of the things I currently own I probably would not if I lived there.
Thanks for the response.
So that's $27,000. I'm guessing that's your Australian currency and not US dollars? With the exchange rate, maybe its not that much in US dollars? Just checked. Looks like that's $18,000 USD.

 

[amey01]

Wow, living in the US, that's crazy to me. I'm very glad we don't have that here. A lot of the things I currently own I probably would not if I lived there.
Thanks for the response.
So that's $27,000. I'm guessing that's your Australian currency and not US dollars? With the exchange rate, maybe its not that much in US dollars? Just checked. Looks like that's $18,000 USD.

Yeah - $USD 18,000 is about right.

So as I said - us Aussies like to complain about it, but it is not **THAT** bad to be honest.

It has been far worse historically.

 

[amey01]

Here's one for my Aussie friends. You get the chance to buy a Pass amp for about the same price as our US friends. Only catch, you have to buy used

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/573682-pass-labs-xa308-power-amp-like-new/

 

[ejspain]

Wow, living in the US, that's crazy to me. I'm very glad we don't have that here. A lot of the things I currently own I probably would not if I lived there.
Thanks for the response.
So that's $27,000. I'm guessing that's your Australian currency and not US dollars? With the exchange rate, maybe its not that much in US dollars? Just checked. Looks like that's $18,000 USD.

Nope

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Just checked on the USD to AUD currency exchange rate, it's sitting at $1.47 that's really good! Perhaps now is the time to upgrade on a few toys... don't know for how long that rate is going to hold.

I've never seen it at this low for ages! Must be a miracle. The only issue with this formula is that most dealers already purchased items from their importers at the much higher exchange rate, so in which case they're not going to sell below cost with no margin. What's the point in that? After all they're running a business. Direct importers are also hit pretty hard, so this is where dealer margins need to be negotiated in order for both parties to benefit. Otherwise, this will end up a fruit salad.

We'll see how it goes. As far as the real highend is concerned, it's a very very tiny market segment that can afford such gear. Hence, the brand new high end category is a waste of inventory, might as well stock with either entry to mid level gear, not highend.

Just as an example, Conrad Johnston's top of the line preamp, ART88, has a price tag of close to 50grand down unda. Only ONE unit was ordered in Aus for around 48grand. Not a single has been ordered since. However, CJ has run out of production, since the ART88 is a limited edition unit. CJ announced they will commence the second batch of the ART88 in May and that may be the end of production, who knows because only 250 units were being produced. The majority of orders are not from the US nor any Western countries, rather the far East. Already batch one is sold out... if the far east is really picking up, I'm wondering whether CJ may increase LE production to more than 250 units. Goes to show where the excess of disposable income really is.

Didn't get a chance to head out to Spore this Feb, rather the wifey & kiddo headed out to London & Paris. I'll head out in July instead, by then I'll get a chance to assess these top level gear, and make a decision. No point in engaging in such spend without auditioning, that's foolish.

Until then, enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Speaking of the far East... I'm beginning to think that those guys must have married camels mmm... because "normal" wifey's simply won't allow such exhorbitant spend. Well, at least mine won't, no way Charlie! I'd be in the dog house without a bone.

I must say though that Vitus SS-103 Class A stereo amplifier is mighty mighty fine!!! It took the Expression 11A's to another dimension! It was a "stop the train" moment. It's similarly priced as the Dartzeel stereo version, which has been my reference point in terns of SS supremacy for a while now but that Vitus amp is something else! It took me a few consecutive auditions to really understand its finest capabilities, now I know. Mmm... definitely dog house coming, and no camels in sight!

Cheers maties, and do enjoy those very fine tunes!
Woofty woof'n RJ

 

[Cayman]

A Big thank you all the wonderful people who kept this thread going and provided amazing insight.

I have been away traveling for a while, but just dropped by to say I managed to secure the 85kg behemoth, a Vitus SS-101 (2 generations behind the current model SS-103, but still a very capable amplifier).

I would be lying if I say, the post from RJ (immediately above) was not influential in making this decision.

I did not get the chance to listen to this amp with ML speakers before buying, so really looking forward to see how it sounds with 11As.

Will be back with listening impressions.

Thanks again!

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah... the Vitus SS-101. Look out!
Get ready for a mind boggling ride... remember to fasten your seatbelt, not just at the waist but also your head & shoulders.

That's a phenomenal power amplifier, it really doesn't get any better than that. Unless you've got nothing else to do with your money. That is one end game amplifier.

Keep us posted on your journey and the initial run-in. The Class A bias on the Vitus SS series is superb! An excellent match with electrostats!

Woof!
RJ

 

[christopherf]

I started my ML journey circa year 2000 when I bought a pair of Aerius i speakers which I paired with a Sonic Frontiers (Anthem) EL34 based push pull tube power amp and never looked backed. Since then I have had different ML speakers including the great SL3s and five years ago upgraded to a pair of 11A speakers. I used to run these speakers with Single Ended Class A tube monoblocks (two 845 tubes driven by two 300B tubes per side).
Essentially, for the past 20+ years my MLs have been driven by tube gear of similar ilk.

Recently I moved to London and shipped the 11As here, but I sold the tube amplifiers as I was not sure if they could be transported safely (and also due to space constraints in my London apartment). At some point after moving here, I considered selling the 11As and buying a pair of Stax X9000 and go the headphone way, but some of the dealers that I have spoken with have encouraged me to give it a go with the 11As notwithstanding the constrained listening area I can afford to spare.

I have decided to re-nourish my life with the 11A goodness again, but this time I need to try SS amps (stereo or monoblock). Since I have next to no experience having driven MLs with SS electronics I highly appreciate any suggestions of a good power amp pairing.

My listening preferences and other parameters of selection are as follows:
1. Budget - USD 10K-12K (new)
2. Preferred amplification Class - Class A (Please enlighten me if this is a misplaced belief)
3. Type of music - Jazz, small ensembles, Oriental Classical, vocals
4. Listening volume: Low to moderate (Never high)
5. Listening space - Quite small (15 feet X 12 feet) - One side opening to the kitchen area
6. Front end - I will be using a single source (streamer). Therefore looking for a DAC with streamer and Volume control) (Eg: PS Audio DirectStream DAC Mk2, MSB Discrete with 2 PSU, Holo Audio May KTE with a preamp)

Thanks a lot for sharing your invaluable experience with me.

Here is a wild card only if you promise not to laugh; I am actually considering the Denon PMA-A110 integrated amplifier with phono stage to drive our 13A; to replace our well regarded Marantz Reference Integrated PM 11S3 which at first glance seems a backward step less power but Audioholics shows it is not watts it is power supply; same observation from a site in Denmark which says it really takes hold and grips speakers; similarly we are replacing our Marantz SA 14S1 SACD player with the Denon DCD A110 because even though it is built in the same factory as the Marantz the sound is different because of the way it processes resulting in more oooph and aliveness. No one is more surprised than me; abandoning the X-5 version 2 and the x-3 version 2 as options because we have no interest in streaming and the improvements are all, per the marketing guy in the digital domain; better DACs. Anyone heard these Denon pieces with ML? The designer says they are improvements to Denon pieces unavailable in the US

 

[Klaus Andersen]

I started my ML journey circa year 2000 when I bought a pair of Aerius i speakers which I paired with a Sonic Frontiers (Anthem) EL34 based push pull tube power amp and never looked backed. Since then I have had different ML speakers including the great SL3s and five years ago upgraded to a pair of 11A speakers. I used to run these speakers with Single Ended Class A tube monoblocks (two 845 tubes driven by two 300B tubes per side).
Essentially, for the past 20+ years my MLs have been driven by tube gear of similar ilk.

Recently I moved to London and shipped the 11As here, but I sold the tube amplifiers as I was not sure if they could be transported safely (and also due to space constraints in my London apartment). At some point after moving here, I considered selling the 11As and buying a pair of Stax X9000 and go the headphone way, but some of the dealers that I have spoken with have encouraged me to give it a go with the 11As notwithstanding the constrained listening area I can afford to spare.

I have decided to re-nourish my life with the 11A goodness again, but this time I need to try SS amps (stereo or monoblock). Since I have next to no experience having driven MLs with SS electronics I highly appreciate any suggestions of a good power amp pairing.

My listening preferences and other parameters of selection are as follows:
1. Budget - USD 10K-12K (new)
2. Preferred amplification Class - Class A (Please enlighten me if this is a misplaced belief)
3. Type of music - Jazz, small ensembles, Oriental Classical, vocals
4. Listening volume: Low to moderate (Never high)
5. Listening space - Quite small (15 feet X 12 feet) - One side opening to the kitchen area
6. Front end - I will be using a single source (streamer). Therefore looking for a DAC with streamer and Volume control) (Eg: PS Audio DirectStream DAC Mk2, MSB Discrete with 2 PSU, Holo Audio May KTE with a preamp)

Thanks a lot for sharing your invaluable experience with me.

Have a look at Devialet Expert Pro series. This is basically a power DAC with an in-built streamer. Excellent reviews across the globe. Fits your budget and no fuzz.

 

[Russr]

Have a look at Devialet Expert Pro series. This is basically a power DAC with an in-built streamer. Excellent reviews across the globe. Fits your budget and no fuzz.

I did some searching a while back to find out more about the Devialet amps. Seems they might not be the best fit for low-imedence swings from the ESLs. @Klaus Andersen - have you used them with ML ESLs? Maybe things have changed in the last year or two?

 

[Klaus Andersen]

I did some searching a while back to find out more about the Devialet amps. Seems they might not be the best fit for low-imedence swings from the ESLs. @Klaus Andersen - have you used them with ML ESLs? Maybe things have changed in the last year or two?

I use a Devialet Expert 200 (2x200 watt in 6 ohms) for a pair of Summit X, that go to 0,7 ohm at 20 khz. No sweat. I think the amount of power needed at 20khz in normal music does not pose a problem....at all. In the ideal world the Devialet(or any amp for that matter) should be able to deliver 400 watt in 3 ohm and 800 watt in 1,5 ohm and then again 1600 watts or so in 0,75 ohm. I do not think most of them do, and I do not think they need to. I have a Threshold that could perform such a trick, but the clarity and transparency of the Devialets surpasses what the old Nelson Pass could get out of the old Stasis series. IMO.

 

[Leporello]

I use a Devialet Expert 200 (2x200 watt in 6 ohms) for a pair of Summit X, that go to 0,7 ohm at 20 khz. No sweat. I think the amount of power needed at 20khz in normal music does not pose a problem....at all. In the ideal world the Devialet(or any amp for that matter) should be able to deliver 400 watt in 3 ohm and 800 watt in 1,5 ohm and then again 1600 watts or so in 0,75 ohm. I do not think most of them do, and I do not think they need to. I have a Threshold that could perform such a trick, but the clarity and transparency of the Devialets surpasses what the old Nelson Pass could get out of the old Stasis series. IMO.

It's not that you would ever be dumping full power at 20khz into your speakers (heaven help your ears if you did). It's that wide impedance swings driven by an amp with high effective impedance will result in roll-off of the highs. There is also the slight chance the low capacitive impedance could cause "ringing" due to unstable feedback, though I don't think that's very common with modern SS amps.

 

[Leporello]

Speaking of the far East... I'm beginning to think that those guys must have married camels mmm... because "normal" wifey's simply won't allow such exhorbitant spend. Well, at least mine won't, no way Charlie! I'd be in the dog house without a bone.

I must say though that Vitus SS-103 Class A stereo amplifier is mighty mighty fine!!! It took the Expression 11A's to another dimension! It was a "stop the train" moment. It's similarly priced as the Dartzeel stereo version, which has been my reference point in terns of SS supremacy for a while now but that Vitus amp is something else! It took me a few consecutive auditions to really understand its finest capabilities, now I know. Mmm... definitely dog house coming, and no camels in sight!

Cheers maties, and do enjoy those very fine tunes!
Woofty woof'n RJ

I suspect a large number of audio fanatics are single.

 

[Robert D]

I suspect a large number of audio fanatics are single.

The question is, were they always single or did they become single once their audio addiction took full hold!?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Many years ago, in a galaxy far far away...
I owned these. This is Nelson Pass legendary stuff, nothing quite like them. Both of these put together can launch the next mission to the moon! Massive power supplies, it makes most gear look like toys! (Sorry, forgot to mention the Threshold amps: SA/12e monoblocks).

They drove my Apogee Diva's partnered with CJ's ART preamp, drove the Apogee's effortlessly! I'd like to see the Devialet's drive Apogee's or full range Stats, no chance Charlie.

Can't stress enough, it's not all about watts and output power that drives panel type speakers efficiently. It's to do with high current and highly stable voltages that can drive, control and grip the notorious impedence swing of Stats, especially full range ones. Having high voltages alone is not adequate if the power supplies don't have the current capacity to hold steady, and vice versa in terms of high current with stable voltages. If one of these factors flinch then the other can't deliver on its own.

Speaking of Devialet gear, it's certainly nice to see this type of sleek looking- fancy bells & whistles thing, that can do almost anything, even make a coffee if needed.
My ML dealer used to demo the "hybrid stats" with Devialet amps, and yes they drove quite alright. It's one of those Class D designs that has come a long way and they've optimised their Class D circuits with great results. Similarly, Jeff Rowland design is another one that's optimised its Class D. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Class D and if that's the type of sound you like, that's perfectly understandable and that's your preference, respect!

However, like I said these demos were mostly on the Hybrids, not the full range models. Even on the Hybrid models after trying out Class D, just give any of the top well designed power amps a spin and you'll notice the difference right away, whether in Class A or AB. These ones really handle Stats with full authority and total grip, they don't flinch one bit:
Pass Labs XA series, Vitus SS-103 series, and Burmester. Take that a notch higher- Dartzeel, CH Precision, Solution, Aries Cerat, Dan D's designs (Momentum, Progression and Relentless series), Class'e Delta series amps or any top tier makes that operate in Class A and Class AB. Driving either Hybrids or full range Stats, the difference is not even comparable.

And then there are the old school legends, such Krell FPB series and this one below, absolutely no issues driving any impedence curve with finesse!

Woof! RJ

 

[18000rpm]

My wife is perfectly happy with Google Nest speaker

 

[Big Dog RJ]

My wife is perfectly happy with Google Nest speaker

Hee haw! You can say that again.
The good wife doesn't really get what all the fuss is about in highend audio. but she keeps a very close eye on my spending. I guess she means well, so I make sure I don't end up in the dog house or ducky pond... have had a few close ones though!
(It was our 23rd anniversary on April 16th) can't live with them and can't live without them.
Cheers to the wifey's!
Enjoy those fine tunes, RJ

 

[Tmort]

Many years ago, in a galaxy far far away...
I owned these. This is Nelson Pass legendary stuff, nothing quite like them. Both of these put together can launch the next mission to the moon! Massive power supplies, it makes most gear look like toys! (Sorry, forgot to mention the Threshold amps: SA/12e monoblocks).

They drove my Apogee Diva's partnered with CJ's ART preamp, drove the Apogee's effortlessly! I'd like to see the Devialet's drive Apogee's or full range Stats, no chance Charlie.

Can't stress enough, it's not all about watts and output power that drives panel type speakers efficiently. It's to do with high current and highly stable voltages that can drive, control and grip the notorious impedence swing of Stats, especially full range ones. Having high voltages alone is not adequate if the power supplies don't have the current capacity to hold steady, and vice versa in terms of high current with stable voltages. If one of these factors flinch then the other can't deliver on its own.

Speaking of Devialet gear, it's certainly nice to see this type of sleek looking- fancy bells & whistles thing, that can do almost anything, even make a coffee if needed.
My ML dealer used to demo the "hybrid stats" with Devialet amps, and yes they drove quite alright. It's one of those Class D designs that has come a long way and they've optimised their Class D circuits with great results. Similarly, Jeff Rowland design is another one that's optimised its Class D. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Class D and if that's the type of sound you like, that's perfectly understandable and that's your preference, respect!

However, like I said these demos were mostly on the Hybrids, not the full range models. Even on the Hybrid models after trying out Class D, just give any of the top well designed power amps a spin and you'll notice the difference right away, whether in Class A or AB. These ones really handle Stats with full authority and total grip, they don't flinch one bit:
Pass Labs XA series, Vitus SS-103 series, and Burmester. Take that a notch higher- Dartzeel, CH Precision, Solution, Aries Cerat, Dan D's designs (Momentum, Progression and Relentless series), Class'e Delta series amps or any top tier makes that operate in Class A and Class AB. Driving either Hybrids or full range Stats, the difference is not even comparable.

And then there are the old school legends, such Krell FPB series and this one below, absolutely no issues driving any impedence curve with finesse!
View attachment 25058
Woof! RJ

That is a beauty! Which amp is that?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

That is a beauty! Which amp is that?

Threshold Stasis SA/12e.

These were Nelson P's pride and joy at the time. Only 7 pairs made it to Spore, and I was the last to own that 7th pair. It was a truly unique design and one that had to be left on for quite a while, in order to really get going. The only issue I had with these beasts were during power on, they draw so much current that they trip the CB's at the mains board!

Nelson advised to rewire each monoblock on a separate CB for 20Amps, and power up only one monoblock at a time, waiting In-between 40secs before powering up the second one. And that worked! That was basically the exact advised given by Eve Anne Manley, when I also had the Ref350's and Neo500's.

These were power houses, can go on 24/7 without flinching one bit! Provided your electric bill doesn't go through the roof. The newest design on these special Statis amplifiers are now the Pass Labs XA200.8 series. Pure Class A and plenty of drive and finesse to grip any Stats by their nuts!

Since I just love tube amps and using exclusively Conrad johnson, tooobs are tending to get pricey. So as a secondary option to have, just on the side for those hot summer days these are the ones I'm considering- Pass Labs XA160.8
Cheers, RJ