Preamp comparison

[Brad225]

I am thinking of upgrading from my ARC LS26 to a Ref 3. I have auditioned the Ref 3 with all ARC Ref equipment in the system but it was not in a situation I could hear them side by side. In my situation an in home demo is not possible. The speakers were MAXX 3's that I didn't like the sound as much as my CLS's. Granted it was only a couple of hours of listening but they just didn't seem to have that open transparency of the ML's

I have read what I can find about the difference between the two but not much from stat people.

Have any of you had the chance to compare them, and can you give me your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[twich54]

Brad,

it's been a couple of years since I did a "side-by-side" with the "3" and the LS-26 but if your wallet allows, the Ref is top of the heap.....for now, rumors abound about a new replacement on the horizon. IMO, the leap from LS-26 to Ref 3 is not as great as the leap from my previous LS-16 to my present 26.

For me, even if I was inclined to spend the money on a Ref 3 I would only do so after evrything else in the food chain was at or equal.

keep in mind that when the Ref 3 is updated there will probably be some mighty fine deals on the 'Gon' for a used Ref 3.

 

[RichTeer]

keep in mind that when the Ref 3 is updated there will probably be some mighty fine deals on the 'Gon' for a used Ref 3.

True, but of course then we'd all be lusting after the Ref 4!

 

[SundayNiagara]

True, but of course then we'd all be lusting after the Ref 4!

My guess is it will be a Ref 5!

 

[tonepub]

I think if the upgrade makes sense financially, you will like the REF 3. More than the LS-26 in every dimension, more weight and more dynamics.

 

[Brad225]

Thanks for your thoughts Dave. I agree that when a new Ref comes out the price on 3's will drop.
That's the ole catch 22 thing though. As the price on Ref 3's comes down so will the price on LS-26's I would think.
I'm probably going to give it a go and see how it sounds. I will update you all after having a listen.

Thanks Jeff I'm hoping that how it turns out.

 

[aliveatfive]

Unless, of course, the Ref3 becomes the Ref3a. If that's the case, the price drop on the original will be less than anticipated.

 

[twich54]

I'm probably going to give it a go and see how it sounds. I will update you all after having a listen..

Brad, I'd be shocked if you wern't impressed !

 

[Brad225]

I got a very good deal on one thru a dealer selling it for a client. Just over 200hrs. since it was new in 2008. It will only end up costing about $1500 after I sell my LS26. That was too good a deal to pass up.

 

[Brad225]

So its been a week with the Ref3 just under 300 hrs on it now so I am guessing it is about as broken in as I will ever be able to hear.
My approach to upgrading when I started back into 2 channel music a couple of years ago has been when finances allowed, purchase a better piece compare it to what I already had then keep one sell the other. You do spend a few extra dollars sometimes with shipping and resale prices but listening in your room with your equipment is really the only to compare the sound.
I am not a new equipment purchaser for the most part so demoing is by carefully selected previously owned pieces.
My progression with preamps was Mac MC24?-Aragon24k to ARC LS25 with choice of 6922 tubes then LS25mkII to see what the 6H30 sounded like then on to the LS26. Each upgrade gave a clear improvement in dynamics, imaging, bass control and spaciousness of music presentation.
I have had the LS26 for about a year and was in no way unhappy with its performance. It is a stunning line stage and a great value. If it was the last pre I could ever buy I would have been quite content.
That said, the curiousity of that little audio addict inside most of us said if the LS26 sounds this good how much better can the Ref3 sound. Different responses I searched out were some where between 10% better to once you hear it going back to the 26 will not be an option.
I was truly surprised at the level of improvement with the Ref from the moment the first CD track started playing. The dynamics of voices and instruments coming out of what I can only describe as more silence than I had ever heard in my listening room. The sound stage on the LS26 filled the width of the room but the Ref3 filled it with much more pronounced sound as though the 26 was crowding it all together. The depth of sound moved well beyond the wall behind the speakers. The bass control of the Ref3 is nothing short of amazing. All of my previous preamps in my system have given a bit of exaggerated bass to my ears. Even with all the acoustic traps it has never been what for me was the proper proportion and volume. Mids and highs are clearer with multiple voices in harmonies being more separate and distinct.
One thing I would never say is the LS26 has any harshness, graininess, veiled sound or lacked dynamics but the Ref3 made me think that after listening to both of them this week.
Now the things I was not expecting from the Ref 3 that I can live with but am a bit disappointed about. The LS25's and LS26 has an adjustable gain control of approx. 24db, 18db, 12db for balanced while the Ref 3 has a fixed 11.6db balanced and 5.6 single ended. This is probably not an issue for most sources but my Sony SCD-1 with 6+ upgrades by Vacuum State has a very low output due to the removal of all of the op amps from the signal path. Due to this I need to run the preamp at 60%-85% volume level and I don't think I listen at very loud. I will check with ARC but I don't see a problem other than maybe it is a bit harder on the tubes. That brings me to my other surprise. Adding 4 more tubes over the LS26 to the room along with the 24 tubes of my VTM200's made for a noticeably warmer temperature even at warm up.

Anyway, all of this is only my opinion based on what I heard in my system and not anything negitive about the LS26.