NuForce
- Thread starter Chris6010
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zatoichi
Active member
If you don't get a response here, I would try audioasylum.com. If I were looking for an amp, I would definitely consider the Nuforce. David Magnan discusses how he would modify them to make them even better on his tweaks website. Trust me: Magnan knows what he's doing.
Joey_V
Well-known member
Chris,
I've heard conflicting reports of the NuForce amps.... some like it, some dislike it.
Joey
I've heard conflicting reports of the NuForce amps.... some like it, some dislike it.
Joey
I'm in the dislike camp. Somewhat cold and sterile for my decidedly tube favoring taste.
YMMV
Joey_V
Well-known member
Yeah... it's definitely a love it or hate it relationship.
I think Jerry (DrJRapp) has some experience with the NuForce amps.... and he owns Summits. He should be able to give you better insight.
Joey
I think Jerry (DrJRapp) has some experience with the NuForce amps.... and he owns Summits. He should be able to give you better insight.
Joey
DrJRapp
Well-known member
Joey, you are right. When I first got my Summits I had planned to use my NuForce Ref9s to power them but two things happened. First off, I have an early pair of Summits, before ML discovered that class D amps wouldn't switch on the bass amps in the speakers. They sent new amps and a tech to my house to change them out. Prior to the changeout I had been using an Aragon 3005 to power the Summits. With Summits upgraded I put the Ref 9s in place I found that the amps were significantly more forward than the Aragon, and not to my liking. They seemed to project the soundstage out into the room rather than have it appear to come from behind the speakers as I prefer.
At the moment I am using Aragon Palladiums (which have a bit more forward presentation than the 3005) till I find something more to my liking.
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zatoichi
Active member
Chris,
If you decide to go the solid state amp route, you should consider a tube preamp. ML speakers tend to be on the analytical side. If you want solid state, Plinius is a good choice. I was impressed with the amp's ability to reproduce timbre--not many solid state amps do that. You may also look for a used Warner Imaging amp.
If you decide to go the solid state amp route, you should consider a tube preamp. ML speakers tend to be on the analytical side. If you want solid state, Plinius is a good choice. I was impressed with the amp's ability to reproduce timbre--not many solid state amps do that. You may also look for a used Warner Imaging amp.
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Joey_V
Well-known member
Jerr....
You say the NuForce image INTO the room? Spooky....
That's what I like.
Joey
You say the NuForce image INTO the room? Spooky....
That's what I like.
Joey
DrJRapp
Well-known member
Yes, and for listening to intimate jazz club music it would be fine, however, I tend to like classical and big band as well as vocalists on stage so that forward presentation doesn't suit me.
DrJRapp
Well-known member
Just be sure that what you are calling "timbre" isn't the harmonic distortion inherent in many tube amps that give them a false sense of warmth.
I too like and use a tube preamp a BAT VK31SE, but it is very clean, with little or no added harmonics.
Very few modern (last ten or so years) tube units exhibit the added harmonics you describe. The circuit design and parts quality and especially trafo design have moved tube components more towards the "neutrality" of SS w/o losing the harmonic integrity that only tubes can maintain IMO.
roberto
Well-known member
Hola...with all respect too, I think that everything is only a matter of taste and liking. I love tubes. And if it is due to their distortion, well, perhaps that´s what my ears love. The right size of the instruments, the stage, the air between instruments, the detail of the notes of every musical instruments. And the voices!!!...I don´t get the metallic sound behind the voice, specially on female vocals. I had Mark Levinson, Krell, Bellcanto, Bryston, Aragon, Hafler, Carver, on SS...and I am not saying that I did not like them...what I am saying is that I do like for my poor ears the tube sound. On tubes I had used Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Cary, VTL, Quad, Sonic Frontiers (I use a model Power 2) to drive my CLSs...and I can listen hours without any ear fatigue. Here, the most important thing is that we like our sound and enjoy what ML through our system give...an oustanding musical experience!!! Happy listening,
Roberto.:musicnote:
DrJRapp
Well-known member
If you don't mind, please explain what you mean by "harmonic integrity"? I've done extensive auditions with tube amps from the likes of VTL, BAT, MAC, Rogue and Belles and they all exhibited midrange harmonic "bloom" to some degree or another, and I believe that's what gives them their unique character. If not so, why bother with the low power, the expense, the heat, and the cost of tube replacement. 9 out of ten "tubies" I've spoken with do so for the ability to "tune" their system by tube rolling...utilizing the distinct harmonic distortion character of different tubes to their advantage.
To me, harmonic integrity is the ability to integrate the musical fundamental with the harmonics of the instrument, a sort of continuousness of reproduction that, all things being equal, SS doesn't do as well IMO. Having heard amps by CJ, ARC, VTL and McIntosh and compared them to SS amps by PS Audio, Carver, Spectral and a few others I find that the SS amps are less engaging and subjectively pleasurable.
Do the two topologies sound different, yes, that is the entire point. Do I feel that modern SS and Tubes designs are converging on a "standard" sound, yes I do! Simply listen to an older CJ or ARC amp and compare them to an equivalent modern version. My experience is that they are starting to sound far less tubey, in the old warm, syrupy sense, and more neutral, extended and fast w/o the potential hardness of SS.
Regarding tube rolling to tune the sound, it is a definite benefit IMO. I would think that if SS owners could easily change out their transistors and/or mosfets they to would partake of the rolling habit also. Or should we assume that all SS devices sound identical in the same circuit?
Definitely tube amps require more user input in terms of tubes and tube replacement, biasing, heat and such but power is no longer a limiting factor. Keep in mind that the VTL Siegfried is 800 WPC @< 1.5% THD, I couldn't imagine needing more. The Pass Labs X1000.5 is 1000 WPC @ 1% THD and is also an exceptional amplifier I am sure (haven't actually heard either yet.)
YMMV
DrJRapp
Well-known member
Not all SS amps have that "potential hardness" you mention. The NuForce Ref9s (bringing us back on topic) are amazing as they don't have either digital or SS edge, but rather have a smoothness and presentation that is somewhat tube like, while maintaining the clarity and having the power that similarly priced tube amps lack. If one likes a more forward presentation, them I would give the NuForce a shot.
Thus the word potential!
zatoichi
Active member
If you're considering the Nuforce, check out David Magnan's comments and tweaks. If you are familiar with his cable, you'll know that his tastes veer to the musical. BTW--His DIY line conditioners are the best thing you can do for your system.
http://www.magnan.com/nuforce.html
http://www.magnan.com/nuforce.html