Next Upgrade: CD Player or Preamplifier

[Northy]

Hi folks, so the upgrade itch is in full swing now while I am saving up. I currently have a PASS XA30.8 and a pair of Theos. I also use a Denon receiver (AVR 3300) as the preamp and have a Cambridge universal player CXU to spin discs. I am thinking of Estoric K-05XS cd player retailing for $8K and Pass XP-12 for the preamp $6K. In an ideal world, I would buy both at once. But unless my lotto numbers come up, that is not going to happen. So what would you suggest for the order of the upgrade to get the most benefits - CD first and then preamp or the reverse? My mind is pretty much made up about these two units. Once purchased, I do not want to think about another upgrade for a long, long time!!!

 

[TomDac]

I'd do the preamp first. I think you'll get more bang for your buck, sonically speaking, than a new CD player.

 

[ttocs]

I agree with TomDac 100%!

Finding a perfect mate to an amp is pure bliss! When I purchase the ML's I immediately went on a quest for an amp only to find that the preamp makes a huge difference when it works well with a particular amp.

 

[amey01]

Do people still have CD players?

I'm not joking, I'm being constructive. Options abound, but spending $8K on a CD Player is pure madness.

As an example - you could spend $8k *MORE* on a preamp (if it's a digital preamp, your budget would give you $14K) and that will give you the flexibility to add whatever sources you like (you could connect a $30 Raspberry Pi if you wanted, and probably still get better sound than you would out of a lumbering, physical disc spinner.

 

[Hear Here]

Do people still have CD players?

I'm not joking, I'm being constructive. Options abound, but spending $8K on a CD Player is pure madness.

I was thinking much the same. I truly don't believe that the best CD player will produce sound better than the same album streamed by a lossless provider - Qobuz or Tidal. Many albums are offered at higher definition that Redbook CD, so the sound will be better than your CDs played on the best CD.

You may own a few CDs that are not offered by these streaming services, but you could rip these losslessly to a server, or play them direct if you get a server that plays as well as rips CDs. eg NAD Master Series M50.2or the much more costly Metronome - there are very few alternatives. Then buy a first class digital preamp ie one with built-in DAC.

If you really want a better CD player, bear in mind that the collapse in CD sales and use means there are lots of virtually unused fabulous players available at what a few years ago would seem ridiculously cheap. Peter

 

[twich54]

and there's those of us 'within the flock' that are still attracted to physical media, yes I'm one. I have zero desire to rip, flip, burn or whatever

As for your pending purchase, without question, upgrade your preamp first. As for your SACD player choice ..... :rocker:

 

[ttocs]

I still play CD's. My CD player (from 1989) was still in use until I got the OPPO 105 a six years ago. I think the laser in the CD player was getting tired, yes I adjusted it, but still . . . .

I also rip, and stream from Tidal, and use Pandora for when I just want a "radio" feel which introduces me to music I've never heard before.

 

[Hear Here]

and there's those of us 'within the flock' that are still attracted to physical media, yes I'm one.

I wasn't suggesting for one moment that one shouldn't maintain a way to play physical CDs. When I sold my Mark Levinson CDP I insisted that the server/ streamer bought to replace it must be able to both Play and Rip CDs. Often one wants to play CDs with no intention of ripping them - borrowed discs, visitors' discs etc.

After some research, I concluded that the NAD Master Series M50.2 would do all I wanted. It plays and rips CDs, has RAID 2 TB storage capacity, streams and handles HD including MQA, accepts other digital and analogue inputs, and outputs via AES/EBU as well as optical and coax. It has an HDMI output so album artwork and track details can be seen on your TV.

Having insisted on a CD-playing device, I find that I listen to streamed or stored music (or radio) 99% of the time, but it's still good to be able to play a quaint old-fashioned CD whenever I need or wish to! I have a handful of CDs that I've not found on Tidal, so this ability to play CDs is one I value, but I certainly won't go back to a stand-alone CDP. Peter

 

[Northy]

Wow, I am over-whelmed by everyone's responses - some more passionate than others. The Esoteric has terrific reviews. I do own a lot of CDs and SACDs and want to get the most out of them. The nice thing with the unit is that it has digital inputs with an outstanding DAC for when I want to listen to digital files.

Ok, the consensus is that I should get the preamp first. I really appreciate your inputs.

 

[twich54]

I wasn't suggesting for one moment that one shouldn't maintain a way to play physical CDs. When I sold my Mark Levinson CDP I insisted that the server/ streamer bought to replace it must be able to both Play and Rip CDs. Often one wants to play CDs with no intention of ripping them - borrowed discs, visitors' discs etc.

After some research, I concluded that the NAD Master Series M50.2 would do all I wanted. It plays and rips CDs, has RAID 2 TB storage capacity, streams and handles HD including MQA, accepts other digital and analogue inputs, and outputs via AES/EBU as well as optical and coax. It has an HDMI output so album artwork and track details can be seen on your TV.

Peter, I totally understand your point of view and respect it. Part of my problem is technology itself and some of my ill guided fears, yes I am a curmudgeon ! That NAD unit you have seems like a nice piece , perhaps I'll have to investigate ............

Wow, I am over-whelmed by everyone's responses - some more passionate than others. The Esoteric has terrific reviews. I do own a lot of CDs and SACDs and want to get the most out of them. The nice thing with the unit is that it has digital inputs with an outstanding DAC for when I want to listen to digital files.

Ok, the consensus is that I should get the preamp first. I really appreciate your inputs.

Good luck with the pre ! I know you're pretty much locked into the Esoteric SACD player but for considerably less $$ have you look at the Marantz Reference SA10 ? it would probably be my go to if my Cary 306 pro should give up the ghost.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I'm about to box up all my CD's. I went through the effort of ripping them all to FLAC so I can play them all from my Media Server without having to physically hunt one down.
And I have made backups because I don't want to do this again.

My OPPO 105D occasionally plays a BD, but other than when I first got it, it hasn't seen a CD.

The reason OPPO is no longer in business is that physical media is basically dead.

Just like how my high end laptop has no CD/DVD/BD device and I no longer even have a floppy disk player in the house. Physical media for music is similarly affected.

Now that 6 Tb drives are CHEAP, there is no reason not to have all your music stored in lossless format.

 

[Northy]

Thanks Dave. I most likely will buy the unit used from the dealer from as a trade-in. So hopefully the cost will not be too steep. As I said before, I do not want to upgrade anymore. This hobby is expensive! Moreover, there is the pride-of-ownership that is part of the equation. I know you have PASS gear so you know what I am talking about.

Mark, as Dave indicated, there is the under-appreciated feeling of holding a physical media along with artwork and etc. that still entices me.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Thanks Dave. I most likely will buy the unit used from the dealer from as a trade-in. So hopefully the cost will not be too steep. As I said before, I do not want to upgrade anymore. This hobby is expensive! Moreover, there is the pride-of-ownership that is part of the equation. I know you have PASS gear so you know what I am talking about.

Mark, as Dave indicated, there is the under-appreciated feeling of holding a physical media along with artwork and etc. that still entices me.

It's not under appreciated, it's just that we place different value on it.

For example, I run my music server to my 65" TV and it displays the artwork with each track. I can also click a button and most of the time it will display the lyrics and other bits of information for a song, it's album and the artist. So you can deep dive while listening to the music.

JRiver and many others also have an album view where you scroll through album covers to look like you are fingering through your collection.

My only point is that there is no information lost.

If physically holding something in your hands besides a mouse makes the experience more enjoyable for you than do what is the most enjoyable for you.

I posted a long time ago that a lot of the draw of vinyl is the ritual of selecting an album, pulling it from it's sleeve and committing to listening to a side. I compared that with how I sometimes will shot gun my way through a bunch of different tracks without letting one finish. So I have to agree that there is a different frame of mind that could make physically grabbing something more enjoyable.

 

[Northy]

I completely agree with you - different strokes for different folks! As Roberto would say, happy listening.

It's not under appreciated, it's just that we place different value on it.

For example, I run my music server to my 65" TV and it displays the artwork with each track. I can also click a button and most of the time it will display the lyrics and other bits of information for a song, it's album and the artist. So you can deep dive while listening to the music.

JRiver and many others also have an album view where you scroll through album covers to look like you are fingering through your collection.

My only point is that there is no information lost.

If physically holding something in your hands besides a mouse makes the experience more enjoyable for you than do what is the most enjoyable for you.

I posted a long time ago that a lot of the draw of vinyl is the ritual of selecting an album, pulling it from it's sleeve and committing to listening to a side. I compared that with how I sometimes will shot gun my way through a bunch of different tracks without letting one finish. So I have to agree that there is a different frame of mind that could make physically grabbing something more enjoyable.

 

[TomDac]

I'm about to box up all my CD's. I went through the effort of ripping them all to FLAC so I can play them all from my Media Server without having to physically hunt one down.
And I have made backups because I don't want to do this again.

My OPPO 105D occasionally plays a BD, but other than when I first got it, it hasn't seen a CD.

The reason OPPO is no longer in business is that physical media is basically dead.

Just like how my high end laptop has no CD/DVD/BD device and I no longer even have a floppy disk player in the house. Physical media for music is similarly affected.

Now that 6 Tb drives are CHEAP, there is no reason not to have all your music stored in lossless format.

BINGO. Buy a CD. Play it ONCE to rip it to FLAC, then store it and play it from NAS.

 

[zigman]

Hi folks, so the upgrade itch is in full swing now while I am saving up. I currently have a PASS XA30.8 and a pair of Theos. I also use a Denon receiver (AVR 3300) as the preamp and have a Cambridge universal player CXU to spin discs. I am thinking of Estoric K-05XS cd player retailing for $8K and Pass XP-12 for the preamp $6K. In an ideal world, I would buy both at once. But unless my lotto numbers come up, that is not going to happen. So what would you suggest for the order of the upgrade to get the most benefits - CD first and then preamp or the reverse? My mind is pretty much made up about these two units. Once purchased, I do not want to think about another upgrade for a long, long time!!!

Are you planning on connecting the analog out on the CD player to your Denon, then Denon to XA30.8? Almost all Denons do not have a true analog pass through, even in pure direct mode. The Marantz models with the analog 7.1 inputs are the only ones that can pass through unprocessed analog signal. So it may be waste to pay all that money for the CD player and connect it through the Denon.

The biggest difference you will hear is adding the dedicated preamp in the mix. I moved from a Denon X6400 to the Marantz 8005 pre/pro and the sound improved significantly, particularly with 2ch music. I am using a MC452 as my 2ch amp. Getting a dedicated 2ch preamp will make an even bigger difference, especially if it’s matched well with the amp, many say it’s the heart of audio system (shapes the sound).

 

[JonFo]

^^^ +1 for the recommendation of a Marantz AV8805 preamp, that's one of modern audio worlds best values out there. Does everything just fine. From clean, pure analog path 2ch (if that's your thing) to allow a full 7.2.4 Atmos immersive setup. And the Dolby Surround Upmixer music mode is very, very good, whether its a basic 5.1 or a full 5.4.4 setup like I run, the upmixes are amazing! I run with DSU On 99% of the time.

Another big win for 2ch is you can run 2.2 configurations with a good Audyssey room correction and have really good bass performance.

 

[Northy]

Are you planning on connecting the analog out on the CD player to your Denon, then Denon to XA30.8? Almost all Denons do not have a true analog pass through, even in pure direct mode. The Marantz models with the analog 7.1 inputs are the only ones that can pass through unprocessed analog signal. So it may be waste to pay all that money for the CD player and connect it through the Denon.

The biggest difference you will hear is adding the dedicated preamp in the mix. I moved from a Denon X6400 to the Marantz 8005 pre/pro and the sound improved significantly, particularly with 2ch music. I am using a MC452 as my 2ch amp. Getting a dedicated 2ch preamp will make an even bigger difference, especially if it’s matched well with the amp, many say it’s the heart of audio system (shapes the sound).

Well, I was going to do that. But the consensus here is that I should get the PASS preamp. So that is going to be the plan of action.

 

[timm]

Well, I was going to do that. But the consensus here is that I should get the PASS preamp. So that is going to be the plan of action.

I remember when I used to think a pre didn’t make that big a difference. I had two and they both sounded the same. I then ordered a Cary slp98p pre and it was an ‘oh wow’ moment. Glad you are going the pre route. Good plan.

After all is said and done - in a couple years if you change out your front end - seriously consider a DAC

 

[Northy]

I remember when I used to think a pre didn’t make that big a difference. I had two and they both sounded the same. I then ordered a Cary slp98p pre and it was an ‘oh wow’ moment. Glad you are going the pre route. Good plan.

After all is said and done - in a couple years if you change out your front end - seriously consider a DAC

The beauty of the Estoric is that it has an amazing DAC on board with all the choice digital inputs. All I have to do is buy a streamer. I think I am going to have the best of two worlds - a smashing CD/SACD player with a highly-regarded DAC.