New vs Used... Finally a decision!

[jman76762000]

After weeks of consideration... The price drop on the Vistas was too good to pass up! Bought a pair of Vistas, 2 Helos 100's for rears, and 2 Helos 10's for side rears... Audio Adviser was offering the Vistas at 2k and the Helos for basically buy on get one... Ever since I heard a pair of ML's at the formerly know Ultimate Electronics I fell in love... I am excited to join this elite audio community and learn more about how to get the best sound out of my ML's... Now, the decision on what amp to buy? Should I get a 7 channel McIntosh or a couple of different amps? Probably 75% movies 25% music. Any Ideas? Now I have to wait 2 weeks to fly home, unbox them and find a new fiance possibly lol!

 

[projectormovielover]

At least in 2 weeks the weather will be nice lol

I think Multi ch Amps wont be the best for Vista as a dedicated 2 ch amp for music listening will be best so spend the most on that. As far as the odd movies a nice multi ch amp with a pre will work out great. Like yourself I bought the vista about 3 weeks ago because of that deal for 2k

If you got the cash then go for a really nice MCIntosh and go for a used sunfire multi when it comes to a movie because bluray will sound great and you wont need super high end multi ch amps. Me personally I love movies and really want to buy myself a halcro 5 ch but dont have money right now for that

 

[Spike]

Bought a pair of Vistas, 2 Helos 100's for rears, and 2 Helos 10's for side rears...

Congrats!! Now you're a certified, card-carrying member of the ML club

Now, the decision on what amp to buy? Should I get a 7 channel McIntosh or a couple of different amps? Probably 75% movies 25% music. Any Ideas?

For most people, the 7-channel McIntosh suffices. Especially when you're looking at 75% movies and 25% music. I'd start with this Mac at 200x7. With the Vista, you always have the option of adding a better amp (tubes) for the panels at a later stage should you grow more critical at music listening. Ya, we've seen lots of that happening around here and we even have a special vocabulary for it: JOEYITIS! (synonym: upgrade-itis)

Spike

 

[Hocky]

At least in 2 weeks the weather will be nice lol

I think Multi ch Amps wont be the best for Vista as a dedicated 2 ch amp for music listening will be best so spend the most on that.

A good multichanel amp could potentially be better than 2 channel - the power supply will be more robust and able to dynamically throw more current to a demanding load when it is 2 channels driven. Don't count it out. I drive my Summits with a 3 channel and it is a pretty good combo. In any case, don't buy tube amps for watching movies.

 

[Spike]

A good multichanel amp could potentially be better than 2 channel - the power supply will be more robust and able to dynamically throw more current to a demanding load when it is 2 channels driven.

Really? This has not been the case for me. My 2-channel amp has always stomped the multi-channel ones.

In any case, don't buy tube amps for watching movies.

For the sake of the original poster (whom I assume to be a newbie), please clarify why he should not buy tube amps for watching movies. My tube amps are working fine for music and movies.

Spike

 

[twich54]

For the sake of the original poster (whom I assume to be a newbie), please clarify why he should not buy tube amps for watching movies. My tube amps are working fine for music and movies.

Spike, I take this to mean the use of a tube amp for 'movies only' , of which I concur, now if it's pulling dbl duty for movies and two channel music that's a different matter and I can see your point.

 

[Hocky]

Really? This has not been the case for me. My 2-channel amp has always stomped the multi-channel ones.


For the sake of the original poster (whom I assume to be a newbie), please clarify why he should not buy tube amps for watching movies. My tube amps are working fine for music and movies.

Spike

Because in a 75% movie system, the tube amp won't be powerful and dynamic enough for proper theater presentation. Well, not without spending way more money than those Vista's are worth, anyway.

 

[Spike]

Hocky,
Going with your premise, wouldn't a subwoofer be required for a movie system (in order to offload the bass duties of the 8" woofers)? If that is the case, how much power do you really need on the LR mains for "proper theater presentation"? The OP stated that he's considering the McIntosh 7-channel amp for his system which is already WAY more money that those Vista's. At a later time, if he ADDs tube amplifiers to drive the panels in addition to the MAC pulling bass duties, will this bi-amp configuration provide enough for "proper theater presentation"?

 

[Hocky]

Hocky,
Going with your premise, wouldn't a subwoofer be required for a movie system (in order to offload the bass duties of the 8" woofers)? If that is the case, how much power do you really need on the LR mains for "proper theater presentation"? The OP stated that he's considering the McIntosh 7-channel amp for his system which is already WAY more money that those Vista's. At a later time, if he ADDs tube amplifiers to drive the panels in addition to the MAC pulling bass duties, will this bi-amp configuration provide enough for "proper theater presentation"?

I think subwoofers are required for any movie system, regardless of main configuration. That really doesn't change how much power you need, though, even if you do offload some of the draw. Assuming ~15 ft listening distance, basic math says that you need about 200wpc regardless of your bass configuration. Good luck finding a tube amp to do that without spending big money.

 

[Spike]

Assuming ~15 ft listening distance, basic math says that you need about 200wpc regardless of your bass configuration.

If I have the McIntosh (200wpc) driving the woofers, how much power do I need to specifically drive the panels alone?

Good luck finding a tube amp to do that without spending big money.

Why do I need a big, powerful tube amp just to drive the panels? My 50-watt SixPac monoblocs are more than enough to handle the ReQuest panels which are not as efficient as the newer Xstat models.

 

[Hocky]

If I have the McIntosh (200wpc) driving the woofers, how much power do I need to specifically drive the panels alone?


Why do I need a big, powerful tube amp just to drive the panels? My 50-watt SixPac monoblocs are more than enough to handle the ReQuest panels which are not as efficient as the newer Xstat models.

Your panels still need 200wpc. Your speaker sensitivity doesn't really improve - you're still pushing the current through the same passive crossovers and whatnot. If you rewired your speaker internally and employed active crossovers and level matched with the biamp setup, your sensitivity might improve... Maybe.

 

[Spike]

Assuming ~15 ft listening distance, basic math says that you need about 200wpc regardless of your bass configuration.

I've been waiting for you to put up some numbers to support this statement about "basic math". Here's the link to my calculation for coming up with 50wpc:
Dynamic Range and Power Claim

And another post where I'm driving my ReQuests with 300wpc vs 50wpc:
Upgrading to Summits

 

[projectormovielover]

Sold some HT gear and I ended up with only my humble tube integrated amp for a week last year.. I watched a great french Zombie movie titled La Horde .... Its has great audio for the atmospheric nature as everyone is armed and trapped inside a high rise. The tubes hooked up to the ML Source for 2 ch was outstanding. Dialog was fuller and sound effects in the mids had a cone like character when shotguns were going off and other bullets where flying. I now find myself occasionally using the tube integrated when I watch instant movies as most are only 2ch or dont have great SQ

I think it would be interesting to hear a full 7 spkr config using tubes hooked up to my Anthem

 

[Hocky]

I've been waiting for you to put up some numbers to support this statement about "basic math". Here's the link to my calculation for coming up with 50wpc:
Dynamic Range and Power Claim

And another post where I'm driving my ReQuests with 300wpc vs 50wpc:
Upgrading to Summits

You're right, I didn't account for 2 speakers playing. However, it is entirely plausible and likely that 1 speaker will be required to produce 105db entirely on its own in a home theatre situation, leaving my numbers correct.