New ML Owner (Vistas) and requesting some advice!

[CookieDough]

Hey everyone,

So I managed to snag what I think was a great Craigslist deal, a set of Vistas from 2011 for $1000. I'm really happy to have a set of Electrostatics, but I'm wondering if anyone can give me some power advice. I've spent a lot of time reading info about receivers and amps with ML's, but I am not a huge audio fanatic like most here, and I'm not looking to spend a lot of money. I will be running the Vistas in 2.1 with a Velodyne VDR-12 12" sub.

My receiver right now is a Denon 2113CI with 95W per channel, and no preamp out so I am unable to add an amp. My understanding is that this receiver will power them, but is less than ideal. I have the chance to buy a refurbished Denon x4000 for $600, which is a year newer, 125W per channel and has preamp out. Will the extra 30W per channel make any difference? I know that having a Sub helps with power requirements. but in order to add an amp I would have to buy the x4000 and an amp which is too much $ right now. At the same time, I don't want to spend $600 if the extra 30W will make no difference. My use is for both music and movies streaming through an Apple TV and Roku box.

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[shifter2600]

Depends on what you want to improve. My suggestion is leave the receiver as is and Spring for a External Network DAC for Music listening. You can do it on the cheep if you are technical with a Raspberry PI w/WolfsonDAC card. Under $100. Or you can not do the Wolfson but use a external USB DAC like the Meridian Explorer. Which will now put ya at $350. If not technical Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 which you can also use for your Apple TV.
Or pick up a Turntable. I guess what I am suggesting is putting your money into a Higher Quality Source if you are looking for an noticeable improvement for under $1000.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hey everyone,

Will the extra 30W per channel make any difference?

Highly unlikely.

 

[CookieDough]

Thanks for the replies.

shifter - I looked into the DACs and it seems like these are for streaming processing, and I'm not sure of the advantage they would give me. I am more wondering about actual power to the speakers and whether 30W would make any difference.

Gordon - Thank you.

 

[edwinr]

Highly unlikely.

Gordon's right. To all intents and purposes, 30 watts extra power won't be noticable. But what you may notice, is that the more expensive receiver may feature a larger power supply, so it may drive the Vista better.

 

[amey01]

Save your money for a real (not receiver) amp.

 

[Northy]

Salutation to another Canuck! Wow, you have got a great deal on the Vistas. Indeed, the extra 30 watts will not cut it for you. The Vistas desrve an amp with massive power supplies. Your current receiver capacitors' total offer is less than 15,000 micro Farads. Whereas a typical amp will give you greater than 40,000 micro Farads. So be happy with your current receiver and save your money for a nice pre and power amp combo. Who knows, with your luck, you may find another excellent deal on the used market.

 

[CookieDough]

Thanks for the help guys, and hello Northy!

Several suggestions now for amps instead of a receiver. I've done research on this but I'm not understanding it. Receivers have things like Audessey Calibration, LFE channels for sub etc. Wouldn't a receiver like a Denon with preamp out hooked to a power amp like emotiva be the ideal situation? That way you still get all the features of a receiver but with more power?

 

[MiTT]

Thanks for the help guys, and hello Northy!

Several suggestions now for amps instead of a receiver. I've done research on this but I'm not understanding it. Receivers have things like Audessey Calibration, LFE channels for sub etc. Wouldn't a receiver like a Denon with preamp out hooked to a power amp like emotiva be the ideal situation? That way you still get all the features of a receiver but with more power?

I think it depends on what your real end game is. In your original post you mention that you are running a 2.1 setup. Do you intend to continue with a 2.1 setup, or do you want to expand into multichannel (5.1 or 7.1)? If the latter then perhaps a reciever would be a good approach, but it will still be a compromise compared to discrete components. If you intend to stay with a 2.1 setup then there are Integrated Amps that could offer you everything you need short of DD and DTS decoding. I'm in the process of selling a Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated that had no problem driving my CLS IIz's. Something along those lines would give you plenty of power, a top line DAC, and a Class A pre-amp and headphone amp if you use them. Plenty of high end manufacturers (including BAT, Levinson, Pass and a host of others), have very high end Integrated's in their line up now. Peachtree seems to be in the process of updating their entire line, so there are great prices on the outgoing Decco lineup if you want new, and there are plenty of different integrated's on AudioGon that might fit your budget, but give you much better performance than most if not all recievers.

 

[twich54]

I think it depends on what your real end game is. In your original post you mention that you are running a 2.1 setup. Do you intend to continue with a 2.1 setup, or do you want to expand into multichannel (5.1 or 7.1)? If the latter then perhaps a reciever would be a good approach, but it will still be a compromise compared to discrete components. If you intend to stay with a 2.1 setup then there are Integrated Amps that could offer you everything you need short of DD and DTS decoding. I'm in the process of selling a Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated that had no problem driving my CLS IIz's. Something along those lines would give you plenty of power, a top line DAC, and a Class A pre-amp and headphone amp if you use them. Plenty of high end manufacturers (including BAT, Levinson, Pass and a host of others), have very high end Integrated's in their line up now. Peachtree seems to be in the process of updating their entire line, so there are great prices on the outgoing Decco lineup if you want new, and there are plenty of different integrated's on AudioGon that might fit your budget, but give you much better performance than most if not all recievers.

I agree with Tim, besides your Vista's do not have a powered bass section, so a more powerful …… and stable…. separate amplifier would be a wise move.

 

[Jemplayer]

Save your money for a real (not receiver) amp.

+1, receivers even high end flagship models, are a compromise when it comes to 2 channel fidelity. A good high end dedicated integrated can be every bit as good as separates. I have had lots of both. When I say integrated, I do not mean Nad, Rotel, Hk etc. the higher end with separate power supplies for the pre amp and power amp section with wattage that doubles down into lower ohm range.

 

[Northy]

I agree with others and want to add there is no point buying a receiver if you are not going to use its amp section. I bet you more than half of the cost of a decent receiver is burried in the amp section.

 

[CookieDough]

I want to thank everyone for their replies, and give an update.

I am about to buy a used Rotel 1077 amp which from all the reviews I have read is a great amp and will provide plenty of power.

The last missing piece is a preamp/receiver with preamp outs, which I'm deciding between a used Marantz AV8003 Preamp from 2008, or a refurbished Denon x4000 receiver for $100 more. The Marrantz retailed for $2500 new and was very high quality, but the Denon is 2013 and has Audessey XT32, SubEQ and HDMI 1.4. I would lean toward the Denon for the better room correction, but as Northy says, I hate the thought of buying a receiver with an amp section that won't be used.

Cheers.

 

[|Tch0rT|]

I would lean toward the Denon for the better room correction, but as Northy says, I hate the thought of buying a receiver with an amp section that won't be used.

Personally I'd go with the Denon. I understand hating to buy a receiver and not use the amp section, I had that dilemma earlier this year. I ended up going with a receiver and not using 5 of the 7 amps (only using 2 for the back surrounds as I have a 5 channel dedicated amp). The way I look at it is at least if my dedicated amp dies I have a receiver I can fall back on while I wait for a new amp or repairs.