Martin Logan and Pass Labs

[Heidrun]

Hello.
I have a offer from a hifi store that i can get a pair of Martin Logan Expression ESL 13A for 13.500€. It seems like a nice price. But i have never heard Pass and Martin Logan together. So what can i expect when it comes to Pass Labs and Martin Logan together. Here in Norway there are no shops that have them both.
And in the same offer i got. I got a offer for Pass Labs X 260.8 Calss AB for 11.000€, and Pass Labs XA 16.8 Class A for 22.000€.
So i wonder. What is the best amps for Martin Logan Expression ESL 13A.

Hope you understand my question here. But i want an open and airy sound with dynamic music when i play them

Thanks in advance
Haakon

 

[twich54]

Haakon, first off, welcome to the group !

As for Logans and Pass .......match made in heaven !

As for the two you mentioned, while both are superb, myself I'd go with the X260.8 for two reasons ......

1 - it will run a lot cooler than the XA (biased completely in Class A up to it's rated output)

2 - the X260.8 itself has plenty of Class A bias before transitioning to A/B, combined with plenty of balls to drive the 13A''s

........oh wait, make that three reasons - save yourself some $$

 

[Treble Clef]

13A for 13.500€? Hvilken butikk? (Which shop?)

 

[Heidrun]

13A for 13.500€? Hvilken butikk? (Which shop?)

Not telling you. Because there is only 2 ML left in the shop :bowdown:

 

[Northy]

Welcome aboard Haakon. I have researched the marriage of ML and Pass in depth as I will be buying a PASS amp in the future. Just about all owners are very happy with the result. As Dave has mentioned, you want to go with their class A/B amp as they double down into 4 ohms and can withstand ML's unforgiving impedance drops.

 

[jtucker]

I am currently using Montis powered by Pass labs INT-150. I am very happy with this combo. Can't think of anything negative to say except the Pass amps do run hot. Make sure you have ample ventilation. I'm sure the point 8 offer some improvement and the 13A has a bigger panel as well. I think X is the way to go with ML over XA

 

[BigGuy]

Haakon, first off, welcome to the group !

As for Logans and Pass .......match made in heaven !

I would agree. Been running Martin Logans with Pass Labs (nee Threshold) for almost 25 years. Had a pair of Monolith I's with upgrade to III's for almost 20 years. "Pass" amps included Threshold SA3, SA2, Pass Aleph 2, Aleph 1.2, and XA160's. Got hold of a pair of used CLXs which were powered by XA150s until I recently upgraded to the XA60.8s which tho' lower in power sound absolutely fabulous!

IMO, there is a special synergy between M-L's and Pass amplifiers and would highly recommend the combo.

BTW, also have a pair of Aerius I's and Theater center channel in my AV system but sadly just using Pioneer Elite AVR to power. :-(

 

[Northy]

Hi BigGuy,

The XA150, is that a typo? Did you mean to say X150? At any rate, I will be buying a Pass amp soon. I got my eyes set on either 150.8 (class A/B) or XA 30.8 (class A). The speakers are Theos backed up by a 210 subwoofer crossed over at 80 HZ. Obviously, XA 30.8 will sound warmer but I just would not want to short-change myself for occasional loud sessions sounding compressed for lack of wattage. Do you have any advise?

 

[BigGuy]

Hi BigGuy,

The XA150, is that a typo? Did you mean to say X150? At any rate, I will be buying a Pass amp soon. I got my eyes set on either 150.8 (class A/B) or XA 30.8 (class A). The speakers are Theos backed up by a 210 subwoofer crossed over at 80 HZ. Obviously, XA 30.8 will sound warmer but I just would not want to short-change myself for occasional loud sessions sounding compressed for lack of wattage. Do you have any advise?

Yes, typo. Had the XA160 monos which have been exchanged for XA60.8s. Not sure XA30.8 has enough power for the Theos (or any M-L) but IMO would definitely go Class A if budget allows. You might want to talk to Mark @ RenoHifi for his thoughts.

On another topic, seems like the xover on the sub is a bit high given that Theos, like my CLX, goes to ~40Hz. Studies have shown that sub can be localized as high as 50-60Hz depending on setup. Only you know for sure but maybe try a bit lower xover point.

 

[Northy]

Yes, typo. Had the XA160 monos which have been exchanged for XA60.8s. Not sure XA30.8 has enough power for the Theos (or any M-L) but IMO would definitely go Class A if budget allows. You might want to talk to Mark @ RenoHifi for his thoughts.

On another topic, seems like the xover on the sub is a bit high given that Theos, like my CLX, goes to ~40Hz. Studies have shown that sub can be localized as high as 50-60Hz depending on setup. Only you know for sure but maybe try a bit lower xover point.

Thanks for your reply and advice. Unfortunately, the cross over is fixed at 80 Hz. I have used the PBK to set up the 210 and as such, it has been optimized for the room. The bass in very tight and lighting-fast - just the way I like it. The woofer in the Theos is only 8 inches and IMHO is best to only be fed 81 to 400 (I think this is the upper cutoff for it) Hz signal.

I have been in correspondence with Mark and he believes I should go with the X 150. I am hoping when it comes to pulling the trigger, I can have both amps at home, test them out before making the purchase

 

[BigGuy]

Thanks for your reply and advice. Unfortunately, the cross over is fixed at 80 Hz. I have used the PBK to set up the 210 and as such, it has been optimized for the room. The bass in very tight and lighting-fast - just the way I like it. The woofer in the Theos is only 8 inches and IMHO is best to only be fed 81 to 400 (I think this is the upper cutoff for it) Hz signal.

I have been in correspondence with Mark and he believes I should go with the X 150. I am hoping when it comes to pulling the trigger, I can have both amps at home, test them out before making the purchase

Interesting that sub has fixed xover point. Not heard of that before. Sounds like it is giving you the sound you want so that is great. We all need to pick our preference.

Glad you talked to Mark and he made rec. IMHO, any PASS amp should work synergistically with M-L. Not going to put words in his mouth but believe Mark will send X150 out on approval so you can A-B. I would check.

Happy listening!

 

[Northy]

Interesting that sub has fixed xover point. Not heard of that before. Sounds like it is giving you the sound you want so that is great. We all need to pick our preference.

Glad you talked to Mark and he made rec. IMHO, any PASS amp should work synergistically with M-L. Not going to put words in his mouth but believe Mark will send X150 out on approval so you can A-B. I would check.

Happy listening!

No, the cross-overing is handled by my receiver. I am using the preouts from the receiver to power up the front and centre speakers. I hope this clarifies.

As far as the amp is concerned, I will definitely take my time. Those Pass amps are sure not cheap - for me anyway.

 

[jazzmatazz]

I own the 13a's and drive them with the Pass XA30.8. It is a magical combination that even when driving hard in a good sized room (14x26x12) never compresses or runs out of gas. It reaches unlistenable levels at 10 o'clock position on pre. While I have never compared it to running with a higher powered amp, I can say that the tonal purity of the XA30.8 is something unique and I wouldn't want to risk giving it up for a higher powered spread. The dealer thought I was crazy but I am a very happy camper (I was a former tube guy and this is my first SS amp.)

Yes, typo. Had the XA160 monos which have been exchanged for XA60.8s. Not sure XA30.8 has enough power for the Theos (or any M-L) but IMO would definitely go Class A if budget allows. You might want to talk to Mark @ RenoHifi for his thoughts.

On another topic, seems like the xover on the sub is a bit high given that Theos, like my CLX, goes to ~40Hz. Studies have shown that sub can be localized as high as 50-60Hz depending on setup. Only you know for sure but maybe try a bit lower xover point.