looking to purchase ML for the first time

[cembros]

HI i am new to this forum and new to Martin Logan. I recently purchased a new sony str da3300es receiver that outputs 100 wats per channel and am looking to upgrade my speakers. I listened to the ML source 8" today hooked up to a pioneer ellite receiver and absoutly fell in love with them. Problem is i dont think my receiver can handle these speakers. I really want to pick up these speakers but i dont want to waste my money buying something that i cannot power. My question to the forum is weather or not my receiver will take advantage of these speakers.
Note- the speakers will be in a small room for now, so in the future i may be able to upgrade to a more powerfull reciver, or maybe purchase a seperate amp to run through my receiver.
Any input is greatly appreciated

 

[daniel]

Your receiver might take advantage of these speaker, but I don't think these speakers would take advantage of your sony receiver.

 

[tsmooth]

My first ML setup was a Denon 2807 receiver with a pair of Source speakers. I had no problems, although it will not be ideal. Your receiver does have preouts so you can upgrade to an amplifier in the future.

 

[cembros]

Your receiver might take advantage of these speaker, but I don't think these speakers would take advantage of your sony receiver.

please explain.
Also these speakers will be in a small room for now, so will it make much of a difference. When i move them into a larger room(soon i hope) i will probably get a seperate amp

 

[SundayNiagara]

please explain.
Also these speakers will be in a small room for now, so will it make much of a difference. When i move them into a larger room(soon i hope) i will probably get a seperate amp

Get a receiver that can deliver current, that doesn't sound like it's pumping razor blades. Say, NAD, or Rotel!

 

[cembros]

Get a receiver that can deliver current, that doesn't sound like it's pumping razor blades. Say, NAD, or Rotel!

what do you mean by current, and also why would my receiver sound like its pumping razor blades. Excuse me if i sound like a novice, any advice will really help

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
You might want to consider either the Onkyo TX-SR805 or TX-SR875. For around $600.00 (street price) the TX-SR805, gives you THX Ultra2 Certification, all of the latest codecs ( TrueHD, DTS Studio Master,etc...), and preouts for all channels to allow outboard amplification. The TX-SR875 offers a very similar power amp section with much better video processing. The TX-SR875 does allow for biamping though. Both of these receivers offer excellent power reserves for a receiver. Truly amazing value.
Cheers,
ML

 

[daniel]

please explain.
Also these speakers will be in a small room for now, so will it make much of a difference. When i move them into a larger room(soon i hope) i will probably get a seperate amp

Well, you will use quality loudspeakers with a so, so receiver ( it's a Sony remember). They will reproduce all the music beauty, but also the receiver nastyness.

I'm not talking about quantity. I prefer talking about quality.

To make an analogy, a bright beautiful girl with an ugly guy a will be advantagous for the guy, not the girl.

p.s. I don't mean to offend you, it's just IMHO sony is in the same "class" as bose product: great marketing for average (or less than average) products.

 

[tsmooth]

Most regular box speakers are rated at 8 ohms. Receivers are designed to handle this relatively easy load because most people buy a few hundred-dollar 5.1 box speaker setup. These box speakers can swing up or down in impedance but on average stay around that 8-ohm rating. Martin Logan speakers can swing down to 1 or 2 ohms when there are difficult high frequency / detailed passages. If you look at the specs of the ML Source, the impedance rating is 5 ohms, 1.6 ohms at 20 kHz. This dip in the impedance requires an increase in current to supply the speakers. MOST receivers are not designed around this fact that almost all people with mid to hi-fi speakers purchase amplification for their speakers (MOST receivers are the easy, main stream answer to home audio, thus why spend money to design something that will most likely not be needed) and will look toward separates (separates: have a dedicate pre-amplifier with volume control that sends the signal to am amplifier. This takes the amplifier out of the pre-amp box that usually leads to better sound). If you look at the ratings of good to great amplifiers, you will see that as the impedance drops the wattage or power to the speakers will / or will almost double (say 200 Watts at 8 ohms, 350 to 400 Watts at 4 ohms, etc.). They are designed to handle speakers of the same / higher caliber as themselves. This is a high level explanation for the response you are receiving thus far.

Basically, looking at your receiver you should not have a problem. You have a mid-level receiver and as long as you are listening at light to moderate volumes you should never have a problem. But, if you want to experience what Martin Logan speakers have to offer, I would recommend buying external amplification and connect it to your receiver via the PRE OUTS on the back of the receiver panel. Have fun for now, save your money, and get a solid $500 - $1000 stereo amplifier by Sunfire, Classe, Conrad Johnson, or even Emotiva. Ask questions and get advice, which is what we are here for.

 

[cembros]

Most regular box speakers are rated at 8 ohms. Receivers are designed to handle this relatively easy load because most people buy a few hundred-dollar 5.1 box speaker setup. These box speakers can swing up or down in impedance but on average stay around that 8-ohm rating. Martin Logan speakers can swing down to 1 or 2 ohms when there are difficult high frequency / detailed passages. If you look at the specs of the ML Source, the impedance rating is 5 ohms, 1.6 ohms at 20 kHz. This dip in the impedance requires an increase in current to supply the speakers. MOST receivers are not designed around this fact that almost all people with mid to hi-fi speakers purchase amplification for their speakers (MOST receivers are the easy, main stream answer to home audio, thus why spend money to design something that will most likely not be needed) and will look toward separates (separates: have a dedicate pre-amplifier with volume control that sends the signal to am amplifier. This takes the amplifier out of the pre-amp box that usually leads to better sound). If you look at the ratings of good to great amplifiers, you will see that as the impedance drops the wattage or power to the speakers will / or will almost double (say 200 Watts at 8 ohms, 350 to 400 Watts at 4 ohms, etc.). They are designed to handle speakers of the same / higher caliber as themselves. This is a high level explanation for the response you are receiving thus far.

Basically, looking at your receiver you should not have a problem. You have a mid-level receiver and as long as you are listening at light to moderate volumes you should never have a problem. But, if you want to experience what Martin Logan speakers have to offer, I would recommend buying external amplification and connect it to your receiver via the PRE OUTS on the back of the receiver panel. Have fun for now, save your money, and get a solid $500 - $1000 stereo amplifier by Sunfire, Classe, Conrad Johnson, or even Emotiva. Ask questions and get advice, which is what we are here for.

very helpfull response. From what you said my receiver will do just fine for me for now since my setup will be in a small room and i wont need to crank up the volume. I do plan on moving into a larger room in the future and a new amp connected through pre outs sounds like the way to go.
Also i am very surprised to hear peoples responses to sony. I know that most of their receivers are sub par, but i purchased the ES model for the improved quality and have never been so happy with a receiver. I purchased an onkyo before this and got rid of it after a month, it in no way compared to the sony ES. Video processing in absoutly top notch and with the option to add an amplifer through pre outs the 100 watts per channel is no issue what so ever. Thank you for the responses

 

[cembros]

another quick question, im looking to get the fresco's for rears and the matinee for my center but i cannot find any reviews. I got a breif listen to the frescos and liked them, but i need to get another listen. I have yet to hear the matinee. Can anyone lead me in the right direction

 

[tsmooth]

I guess I will chime in on this topic for you as well. I currently have a Motif for the center channel and Vignettes for surrounds. I would recommend the Motif over the Matinee for the small price difference. I was able to demo both with a pair of Vistas, and the Motif was a great match. BUT, since you looking at the Source for your front speakers, the matinee might be a better tonal match? I think the vignettes (currently in my system) are great as surround speakers and have no complaints with their performance. I have also heard the fresco I in a surround setting with 1) ML Spire and 2) a Revel home theater setup. I have to say they performed quite well and did not detract from the experience in the least bit. Especially if you are looking to mount them due to the room size, either one would be great.

Now back to amplification. If you are planning to go with the Source, Matinee (Motif), and fresco (vignette) as a setup, I would HIGHLY recommend amplification. This decision needs to correspond to your application. I do a large amount of multi-channel music (SACD, DVD-A, live recorded concerts, etc.) so I went the route of a multi-channel amplifier. If you do most of your listening to stereo recordings, then I would recommend a solid stereo amplifier. This would allow the receiver to only have to power the center and surround channels, which would probably result in a better listening experience.

My last recommendation would be how your budget is spent. In order of importance would be 1) amplification, 2) center channel, and 3) surround channels. If you don’t want to purchase amplification right now, then I would recommend buying the best center channel speaker that you can. The Theater (used on www.audiogon.com) or Motif are the best bets in your price range. If that means vignettes over frescos, I would recommend following this advice. Look at the amount of data sent through each speaker during a movie: a center channel speaker receives at worst 50% of all sound (not to mention 90+% of all dialog!!!). Now, how much information do the surround channels receive, about 10-20% tops. SPEND ACCORDINGLY and it will pay off in your system.

 

[cembros]

thank you for your response, ill let you know how my purchases go

 

[daniel]

another quick question, im looking to get the fresco's for rears and the matinee for my center but i cannot find any reviews. I got a breif listen to the frescos and liked them, but i need to get another listen. I have yet to hear the matinee. Can anyone lead me in the right direction

You'll find them here:http://www.normanaudio.com/reviews.asp?page=16

 

[JMAUSGP]

I think Tsmooth summed it up nicely. Once you start down this path you can always go on Audiogon and get a budget buy. There you can get everything that you need especially if you are somewhat patient and take your time. Although Sony has made many products for the masses and their reputation for such is suspect, your Sony 3300ES is a whole separate beast. The entire ES (Elevated Standard) series is the top of the line Sony and they have recieved very good reviews. I have Sony ES products in my 7.1 Martin Logan system and they are outstanding in their quality and performance. Your Sony 3300ES is actually a nice sounding receiver with decent power but ESLs use lots of power or current so although it may work at the start, you will want to consider the least costly move when you upgrade, which is to use the 3300ES as a pre-amp and add a used Sunfire 5200 or 7200 TGA 5 or 7 channel amp. Then as you upgrade from one Martin Logan speaker to the next, and trust me you will, (fortunately Upgradeitis is highly contagious), this way you will have the power/current to do the job.

 

[magnoliarichj]

buy the puritys and dont worry abouot how much power your reciever has.... its a non issue with those.