Focus question

[Nuri58]

An if you disconnect the LS cable at the amp. end what do you get - still hiss? I'd try to disconnect everything and add things one by one. that might reveal what causes the possible line noise.

 

[Leporello]

sorry not related to the OP but I just got a C18 and I'm getting hiss if I put my ear right up to the speaker. Is this normal from the folded motion tweeter with nothing playing? I also have a pair of 11As and they're dead silent. Running my LCR with a Parasound Halo A31...switched around the channels and speaker cables with no change. My first experience with the folded motion tweeter so was wondering if I need to chase this rabbit.

This is an all passive speaker, correct? If it's hissing, with no amp connected to it, the only thing that it could be is arcng in the ESL elements, which would be serious and should be taken up with ML. Otherwise, the fault (if it's loud enough to call that) must lie with your electronics. I'm guessing that the llA's are less efficient than the C18, or that when you put your ear up to the panel it sounds silent because the hiss is distributed over the entire panel area, or both. Also, doesn't the Halo A31 have gain controls? Maybe you just need a more optimal gains structure to be dead silent in the center. But if it is the electronics, re-distributing the gains between the pre and power amps doesn't help, and you can't actually hear the hiss from your listening position, I would definitely not be chasing that rabbit.

 

[Leporello]

Something that really helps with limiting extraneous noise from entering the house wiring is the fact that my area (suburb of Chicago) requires metal conduit and boxes for all electrical wiring.

Wow, that's surprising for domestic wiring. That means you pretty much have to cut into walls to install new wiring. Or is BX acceptable?

 

[Leporello]

I've read the folded motion tweeter is super sensitive to line noise. Is yours connected to a quality conditioner?

What the OP describes--"hiss"--sounds to me more like Johnson noise, or Gaussian white noise, not the stuff thrown into power lines by motors, fluorescent lights, switching power supplies, etc. If it were line noise, though, I would expect it to change with what time of day or night it is.

 

[Leporello]

I hate drilling into the wall but looks like I’ll have to hang the tv or speaker because I can’t afford that floor standing option at 10k.

$10K? There must be less expensive stands than that. Have you considered building your own? And repairing holes in the wall with Spackle and paint, when the time comes, isn't that difficult.

p.s. "Thump" doesn't quite describe the sound of a 65 lb. monitor tipping over and hitting the floor

 

[ttocs]

Wow, that's surprising for domestic wiring. That means you pretty much have to cut into walls to install new wiring. Or is BX acceptable?

BX is not acceptable, but Greenfield is for short runs. The idea is that should wires need to be replaced, they can when using conduit or Greenfield. If one wants to upgrade a outlet to a higher Amperage, it's an easy task to pull new wire to an existing location.

This electrical code, and plumbing code for that matter, stem from the Great Chicago Fire.

You'd be surprised what a great electrician can do to limit wall and ceiling destruction when running a new outlet or switch location.

 

[Robert D]

Nope not required in Texas. My Furman Elite 15 PFI arrived yesterday. Hopefully that cleans it up and the speaker isn't bad.

Let us know your results. I've never had any noise in my equipment, even when not using a power conditioner. I just bought it because my local store recommended, and I was worried about power surges.

 

[user 49612]

sorry not related to the OP but I just got a C18 and I'm getting hiss if I put my ear right up to the speaker. Is this normal from the folded motion tweeter with nothing playing? I also have a pair of 11As and they're dead silent. Running my LCR with a Parasound Halo A31...switched around the channels and speaker cables with no change. My first experience with the folded motion tweeter so was wondering if I need to chase this rabbit.

EJ totally normal. My ESL C, Focus, FX2, 60XTI, F200 and 2 Illusions all do this. If my amp is off they do now, but when the amp is on there is a slight hiss. I have very sensitive 30db gain amps if that matters.

I'd bet the other guys here have the hiss too but their ouput stage might be muted when no signal is present. In that case no they will not hear the noise.

You can ask ML for a new tweeter the problem wont change

 

[ejspain]

This is an all passive speaker, correct? If it's hissing, with no amp connected to it, the only thing that it could be is arcng in the ESL elements, which would be serious and should be taken up with ML. Otherwise, the fault (if it's loud enough to call that) must lie with your electronics. I'm guessing that the llA's are less efficient than the C18, or that when you put your ear up to the panel it sounds silent because the hiss is distributed over the entire panel area, or both. Also, doesn't the Halo A31 have gain controls? Maybe you just need a more optimal gains structure to be dead silent in the center. But if it is the electronics, re-distributing the gains between the pre and power amps doesn't help, and you can't actually hear the hiss from your listening position, I would definitely not be chasing that rabbit.

The C18, like the 11As is a hybrid so the drivers and folded motion tweeter require amplification while the ESL gets charged with AC. The hiss is only present with the system powered on. The panel silence on the 11As is consistent throughout the panel. Since the hiss is primarily with the tweeter, my troubleshooting has been focused on that path (i.e. IC, speaker cable, amp, and amp channel). I haven't tried switching ICs or adjusting the gain on the A31. I'll give those a shot and report my findings. Thanks for the nudge.

 

[ejspain]

EJ totally normal. My ESL C, Focus, FX2, 60XTI, F200 and 2 Illusions all do this. If my amp is off they do now, but when the amp is on there is a slight hiss. I have very sensitive 30db gain amps if that matters.

I'd bet the other guys here have the hiss too but their ouput stage might be muted when no signal is present. In that case no they will not hear the noise.

You can ask ML for a new tweeter the problem wont change

Mannnnnnnnn TiBone thank you so much for confirming. I was about to turn my system inside out to stop this freakin hiss lol. Fortunately I cannot hear it at the listening position.

 

[user 49612]

Mannnnnnnnn TiBone thank you so much for confirming. I was about to turn my system inside out to stop this freakin hiss lol. Fortunately I cannot hear it at the listening position.

I want to remain humble but I highly highly doubt these guys have silent tweeters. If they do they are not listening at the right time/circumstance in my opinion. Dont worry about it one bit.

Fun fact: The Illusion has 2 tweeters from the same internal source, yet the hiss is different tone for both. One lower one higher. On 2 speakers tested over 6 tweeters.

Sounds frekin fantastic. Move on, just let everyone else believe theirs are dead quiet

 

[ejspain]

Let us know your results. I've never had any noise in my equipment, even when not using a power conditioner. I just bought it because my local store recommended, and I was worried about power surges.

The Furman didn't solve the hiss BUT MAN OH MAN....don't want to steer this conversation in another direction but the power reserves and other features from the 15A PFI immediately improved the noise floor and all other attributes. It's like a blanket was lifted off my system. Amazing.

 

[ejspain]

I want to remain humble but I highly highly doubt these guys have silent tweeters. If they do they are not listening at the right time/circumstance in my opinion. Dont worry about it one bit.

Fun fact: The Illusion has 2 tweeters from the same internal source, yet the hiss is different tone for both. One lower one higher. On 2 speakers tested over 6 tweeters.

Sounds frekin fantastic. Move on, just let everyone else believe theirs are dead quiet

Appreciate it.

 

[Robert D]

I want to remain humble but I highly highly doubt these guys have silent tweeters. If they do they are not listening at the right time/circumstance in my opinion. Dont worry about it one bit.

Fun fact: The Illusion has 2 tweeters from the same internal source, yet the hiss is different tone for both. One lower one higher. On 2 speakers tested over 6 tweeters.

Sounds frekin fantastic. Move on, just let everyone else believe theirs are dead quiet

Ok, so I just tested out mine. With a totally silent room I can just barely hear what I'd call a high frequency humming sound. A bit like what you hear from a transformer in your yard, or an electrical panel. It is just barely audible on mine. I'm not 100% sure it's not the panel I'm hearing, but my Prodigies don't do it.
I can only hear mine if I put my ear right up to the metal screen of the speaker.

 

[Robert D]

The Furman didn't solve the hiss BUT MAN OH MAN....don't want to steer this conversation in another direction but the power reserves and other features from the 15A PFI immediately improved the noise floor and all other attributes. It's like a blanket was lifted off my system. Amazing.

I like mine a lot. Got 2. Not sure which model mine are ATM.

 

[ejspain]

Ok, so I just tested out mine. With a totally silent room I can just barely hear what I'd call a high frequency humming sound. A bit like what you hear from a transformer in your yard, or an electrical panel. It is just barely audible on mine. I'm not 100% sure it's not the panel I'm hearing, but my Prodigies don't do it.
I can only hear mine if I put my ear right up to the metal screen of the speaker.

Yep the same for me. Only when I put my ear right to the speaker I hear a clear hiss (not hum) from the tweeter. I know its the tweeter because I can pan across and there's nothing from the esl or either of the drivers.

 

[Fidji99]

sorry not related to the OP but I just got a C18 and I'm getting hiss if I put my ear right up to the speaker. Is this normal from the folded motion tweeter with nothing playing? I also have a pair of 11As and they're dead silent. Running my LCR with a Parasound Halo A31...switched around the channels and speaker cables with no change. My first experience with the folded motion tweeter so was wondering if I need to chase this rabbit.

I would suspect gain matching between source/avpreamp and amp. Marantzes are going their own way in terms of Engineering [low volts on pre-amp forcing higher gains on power amps, which exacerberates hiss from tweeter] .

All I can say Purifi at 20dB gain is silent on Focus.

 

[Robert D]

Yep the same for me. Only when I put my ear right to the speaker I hear a clear hiss (not hum) from the tweeter. I know its the tweeter because I can pan across and there's nothing from the esl or either of the drivers.

Mine is so faint that if I werent listening for it id never know it was there. Your's must be louder than mine, and mine is a hum like you hear from electric sources. So our's sound a bit different apparently. Ive owned this for years now and never even noticed. Im not worried about it since its so faint. Our breaker box in the basement makes more noise than that.

 

[user 49612]

The Furman didn't solve the hiss BUT MAN OH MAN....don't want to steer this conversation in another direction but the power reserves and other features from the 15A PFI immediately improved the noise floor and all other attributes. It's like a blanket was lifted off my system. Amazing.

Try a Puritan. Furman is garbage

 

[user 49612]

Mine is so faint that if I werent listening for it id never know it was there. Your's must be louder than mine, and mine is a hum like you hear from electric sources. So our's sound a bit different apparently. Ive owned this for years now and never even noticed. Im not worried about it since its so faint. Our breaker box in the basement makes more noise than that.

Yes exactly but point is there is noise. Sure, some systems more than others based on amp and source, but silent they are not