Caught in the Wild
- Thread starter MotorToad
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
I saw a set of Martin Logan panels on another movie once too. I can't remember what it was.
On the TV show Friends Ross had a pair of SL3s.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2021
- Messages
- 43
- Reaction score
- 20
Yep. Martin Logan actually has that pair from Friends at their HQ in Lawrence.
Its a bit strange to me that there aren't more companies making electrostat speakers, and that they aren't more common. It's too bad. I think if there was more competition that it would keep prices more competitive.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2021
- Messages
- 43
- Reaction score
- 20
Well, they come with their own unique challanges that make them less attractive to companies. A) Companies would have to retool their factories to make electrostatic panels. You can't get these panels from third-party driver manufacturers like pearless, ScanSpeak or SB Acoustics.
B) the Panels necessarly need to be large to produce lower midrange with any dynamics, so that can hurt their WAF compared to more traditional slim towers and standmounts.
C) Electrostats need to use step-up transformers to make the magic happen, which makes them more complex expensive to build than a traditional speaker.
B) the Panels necessarly need to be large to produce lower midrange with any dynamics, so that can hurt their WAF compared to more traditional slim towers and standmounts.
C) Electrostats need to use step-up transformers to make the magic happen, which makes them more complex expensive to build than a traditional speaker.
Still, weren't not talking rocket science. People, some on here, make their own electrostats at home.
Yes, that's correct. Valid points from Brazilnut, the tooling required is not very accessible plus it's very Labor intensive. It requires precision skill and steady hands plus a reliable market to sustain the product. This is another reason why ML discontinued the CLX line and the mighty Statements Evo-II's. Absolutely no viable market other than a handful of audiophiles who've already bought!
Although specific tooling is required for electrostats, it maybe easier to build conventional speakers but this is just at the entry-level category. When dealing with the highend - high performance dynamic types, they're some of the most complex to make and perfect. For example, Sonus Faber, YG Acoustics, Wilson's, Rockport, Genesis, Zellaton, Von S, Magico, Karma Ref and Gryphon have the most advanced technologies in cabinet bracing, driver enclosures, driver materials, cross-over design and internal wiring, the total sum of parts and labor involved is what determines their high prices. So comparing these types to electrostat tech, it's actually much easier to build good stats.
Going back to stat history, it was first made somewhere back in the 30's It was so unreliable that it was shelved for nearly 20yrs until somewhere around the 50's Peter Walker made his Quad electrostats a commercially viable product. Even back then, the so called technical gurus were unanimous in their decision that the electrostat did sound better and far more natural compared to any other type of speaker. However, it took nearky 30 bloody years for Quad and others to start the ball rolling. Then came Arnie Nudell's Servo Ststic 1 system and the others followed like Acoustat, Sound Lab and so on.
The market for other panel types, such as Maggie's, Apogee's, Alsyvox, Diptyque, Clarisys Audio, Sanders ESL's, GT audio works and the like are starting to make headway, obviously with Magnepan leading the top, simply due to VFM. Considering any of the others, Alsyvox or Clarisys cost a bloody fortune! Their entry level panels start at 50grand Euros or 125grand for the Alsyvox ribbons, so comparing those prices, obviously Maggie's take the podium.
Also, considering those prices, anything over 20 to 30grand, there are plenty of dynamic driver type speakers that can deliver true high performance and they're beautiful finish actually attracts the WAF!
At the end of the day, I reckon it's all about the music and the love of natural fine recordings on the best possible playback systems. If you're keen on impressing the WAF then any luxurious cabinet type would do. I would rather truly appreciate the inner, finer detail of the recording and be fully immersed and engaged with the music, that's all that matters. And that's the very reason I just prefer ML stats! There's nothing quite like them.
That deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ
Although specific tooling is required for electrostats, it maybe easier to build conventional speakers but this is just at the entry-level category. When dealing with the highend - high performance dynamic types, they're some of the most complex to make and perfect. For example, Sonus Faber, YG Acoustics, Wilson's, Rockport, Genesis, Zellaton, Von S, Magico, Karma Ref and Gryphon have the most advanced technologies in cabinet bracing, driver enclosures, driver materials, cross-over design and internal wiring, the total sum of parts and labor involved is what determines their high prices. So comparing these types to electrostat tech, it's actually much easier to build good stats.
Going back to stat history, it was first made somewhere back in the 30's It was so unreliable that it was shelved for nearly 20yrs until somewhere around the 50's Peter Walker made his Quad electrostats a commercially viable product. Even back then, the so called technical gurus were unanimous in their decision that the electrostat did sound better and far more natural compared to any other type of speaker. However, it took nearky 30 bloody years for Quad and others to start the ball rolling. Then came Arnie Nudell's Servo Ststic 1 system and the others followed like Acoustat, Sound Lab and so on.
The market for other panel types, such as Maggie's, Apogee's, Alsyvox, Diptyque, Clarisys Audio, Sanders ESL's, GT audio works and the like are starting to make headway, obviously with Magnepan leading the top, simply due to VFM. Considering any of the others, Alsyvox or Clarisys cost a bloody fortune! Their entry level panels start at 50grand Euros or 125grand for the Alsyvox ribbons, so comparing those prices, obviously Maggie's take the podium.
Also, considering those prices, anything over 20 to 30grand, there are plenty of dynamic driver type speakers that can deliver true high performance and they're beautiful finish actually attracts the WAF!
At the end of the day, I reckon it's all about the music and the love of natural fine recordings on the best possible playback systems. If you're keen on impressing the WAF then any luxurious cabinet type would do. I would rather truly appreciate the inner, finer detail of the recording and be fully immersed and engaged with the music, that's all that matters. And that's the very reason I just prefer ML stats! There's nothing quite like them.
That deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ
Another reason for few in the ESL field is that, like all large line-source dipoles, room placement & treatment is critical to the results.
JansZen solves some of that by making their ESL a monopole. They even have a stand-mount version that easily replaces a traditional box speaker because it looks like one.
Muraudio does something different in their SP1 model; while still being a dipole, the panel curving makes it more of a point-source speaker.
And the Muraudio PX2 is an omnidirectional ESL speaker. Pictured below:
JansZen solves some of that by making their ESL a monopole. They even have a stand-mount version that easily replaces a traditional box speaker because it looks like one.
Muraudio does something different in their SP1 model; while still being a dipole, the panel curving makes it more of a point-source speaker.
And the Muraudio PX2 is an omnidirectional ESL speaker. Pictured below:
I was going to say I id consider a set of these, but wow!Another reason for few in the ESL field is that, like all large line-source dipoles, room placement & treatment is critical to the results.
JansZen solves some of that by making their ESL a monopole. They even have a stand-mount version that easily replaces a traditional box speaker because it looks like one.
Muraudio does something different in their SP1 model; while still being a dipole, the panel curving makes it more of a point-source speaker.
And the Muraudio PX2 is an omnidirectional ESL speaker. Pictured below:
"Each pair of Domain Omni PX2s are hand made to order. Starting at $76,400 USD per pair, your PX2s can also be upgraded with custom paint finishes and trim options."
Yes, I've heard those Muraudio speakers. When i first saw them, it reminded me of those good old Energy omni-directional speakers they used to make alongside the Paradigm Studio series (same factory & same company) they were not bad at all.
However, the Muraudio takes things a few steps further in terms of performance and transparency being ESL tech. They were driven by a single stereo amp from Dartzeel during that demo, and were very good! Although, personally I wouldn't pay 80grand for these, and that's USD. Once those land down unda, we're looking at well over 100grand and for 100grand over, there's none other than Alsyvox ribbons, and they are superb! On a totally different level to these.
When it comes to 6 figure price tags on speakers alone, there are far better choices. It's more sensible to keep things in perspective and look for 15 to 20grand or below, there's far greater vfm in this category. Just take ML stats for example, to surpass their performance in terns of overall transparency, speed and soundstage, you'll have to spend a fortune to better it.
BTW, the pics of those Muraudio's don't do justice to their actual impression. They can seem quite bizarre in pics but up close, they're actually a work of art! Not sure why they would cost that much but they're really top dollar. It's one of those special ESL hybrids where you have to use SOTA gear, no compromises at this level. Otherwise, there's really no point in engaging in this kind of spend. I would classify these in the ultra-high-end category. Big toys for the big boys...
Cheers, RJ
However, the Muraudio takes things a few steps further in terms of performance and transparency being ESL tech. They were driven by a single stereo amp from Dartzeel during that demo, and were very good! Although, personally I wouldn't pay 80grand for these, and that's USD. Once those land down unda, we're looking at well over 100grand and for 100grand over, there's none other than Alsyvox ribbons, and they are superb! On a totally different level to these.
When it comes to 6 figure price tags on speakers alone, there are far better choices. It's more sensible to keep things in perspective and look for 15 to 20grand or below, there's far greater vfm in this category. Just take ML stats for example, to surpass their performance in terns of overall transparency, speed and soundstage, you'll have to spend a fortune to better it.
BTW, the pics of those Muraudio's don't do justice to their actual impression. They can seem quite bizarre in pics but up close, they're actually a work of art! Not sure why they would cost that much but they're really top dollar. It's one of those special ESL hybrids where you have to use SOTA gear, no compromises at this level. Otherwise, there's really no point in engaging in this kind of spend. I would classify these in the ultra-high-end category. Big toys for the big boys...
Cheers, RJ
Yeah. Some boys have big toys! The Porshe dealer I'm at now has a used 2022 Taycan turbo for sale. The owner only put about 3000 miles on it. He likes to buy new a lot! Drives new cars for a year and then trades in. New it was $170,000. He pays cash.
Attachments
Ooo yeah, I like that blue / cyan color, and even that silver one behind it, real nice! Even then, I wouldn't fit in any of those... let alone need help to get out of one! Not good for big dogs.
I remember the last time I sat in a Honda NSX, it was a ride of a lifetime! Three silly buggers had to help me out! It's profile is so low, my backside was on the road... and even then all I could see in front was just road disappearing in a flash. I couldn't see the front bonnet nor the sides, just the windscreen and plonked on the road, it was quite mesmerising!
Speaking of which, the chap who actually bought that NSX was also the owner of three separate highend car dealerships. Apparently he owns one of each exotic type: Lambo, Porsche, Nissan Skyline GT, McLaren GT, Ferrari something and this NSX. I chatted to him and asked why not any of the top line Merc's, BMW's or Audi's, he laughed and replied those are family safety cars, not special edition collectors items that are super fast! I guess he had his reasons, and so with that I thanked him, paid my dues and walked out with the Honda CRV! Not bad eh?
At least it gets me from point A to B in no time!
BTW, the NSX model I'm referring to is most probably called the Acura NSX in the US, slightly different tag... and that particular Porsche Taycan or whatever, I don't think we get that model in Aus. The NSX was actually 60grand more than his Lambo, according to him, the Lambo was 400grand, the NSX sits at 460grand. It's a good thing he allowed me to drive it! I must have a trusting face.
So far, only 7 NSX models were sold in Aus, he decided not to import the model anymore but hey! The CRV is selling!
Cheers mate, RJ
My 911 turbo you might think would be too small, but youd be surprised how much room there is in the front seat, The back, forget about it!Ooo yeah, I like that blue / cyan color, and even that silver one behind it, real nice! Even then, I wouldn't fit in any of those... let alone need help to get out of one! Not good for big dogs.
I remember the last time I sat in a Honda NSX, it was a ride of a lifetime! Three silly buggers had to help me out! It's profile is so low, my backside was on the road... and even then all I could see in front was just road disappearing in a flash. I couldn't see the front bonnet nor the sides, just the windscreen and plonked on the road, it was quite mesmerising!
Speaking of which, the chap who actually bought that NSX was also the owner of three separate highend car dealerships. Apparently he owns one of each exotic type: Lambo, Porsche, Nissan Skyline GT, McLaren GT, Ferrari something and this NSX. I chatted to him and asked why not any of the top line Merc's, BMW's or Audi's, he laughed and replied those are family safety cars, not special edition collectors items that are super fast! I guess he had his reasons, and so with that I thanked him, paid my dues and walked out with the Honda CRV! Not bad eh?
At least it gets me from point A to B in no time!
BTW, the NSX model I'm referring to is most probably called the Acura NSX in the US, slightly different tag... and that particular Porsche Taycan or whatever, I don't think we get that model in Aus. The NSX was actually 60grand more than his Lambo, according to him, the Lambo was 400grand, the NSX sits at 460grand. It's a good thing he allowed me to drive it! I must have a trusting face.
So far, only 7 NSX models were sold in Aus, he decided not to import the model anymore but hey! The CRV is selling!
Cheers mate, RJ
Im 6 foot tall and was a bodybuilder. Im still about 230 lbs, but was higher before my heart attack. I fit well in mine, even with a big racing helmet on at the track. An instructor with me drove my car and he fit fine. He is about 6 foot 4 inches or a bit taller too. He had a helmet on also. The front seats are roomy and even have enough shoulder room for my wide shoulders.
Similar threads
