amen ...............
Bump stocks. Who will be
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
amen ...............
Finally something we can all agree on!
Is this some alternate reality? Since when am I the one bringing everyone together? :ROFL:
Rich, you've always worn the 'halo' !
amey01
Well-known member
But guns ain't going to help you. The government has nukes! They'll just pop a rocket toward you and destroy everyone who resists (and their guns).
That seems to be the view of every outsider Bernard.
Isn't the US a little more resourceful than that? Aren't they concerned that almost every other country has been able to successfully do something, but the US is able "to do nothing"? Isn't that a trifle concerning, not being able to do anything? Other than preside over a mass shooting every second day.
Last edited:
Ok, I'll play. Nukes and missiles are highly ineffective against a geurilla insurgency, especially one within your own country. That gets messy, with lots of collateral damage.
That's because you don't really understand our history and culture and the evolution of our laws and Constitution over 200 years. "Just do away with the damn thing," Bernard says. Do you have a clue what that takes? You would need 2/3 of both houses of Congress or 2/3 of the States to agree to it. That is a political impossibility for minor policy disagreements, much less something as "loaded" as banning firearms. Just not going to happen.
Every other country has universal health care, too, but you don't see us too concerned about it. Heck, look at the backlash from republicans over Obamacare, which was originally a plan drawn up by conservatives as an alternative approach to a universal single-payer system. The partisanship in our Congress is higher than ever before.
And, by the way, the context of this quoted comment was that banning bump stocks would do nothing, not that the U.S. couldn't do something to limit firearm deaths. There are lots of things we could do to limit firearms deaths. And most of them don't require banning firearms. Banning bump stocks will allow the politicians to pat themselves on the back, and do nothing more. Partly because this is the first and only time bump stocks have been used in a mass shooting and partly because it is very easy to bump fire a rifle without a bump stock.
Rich, correct me if I'm wrong (quite often) but were not the 'bump stock' weapons found as part of the shooters cache that was not actually used in the killings ? Regardless, I'm not trying to lessen the concern here ........
amey01
Well-known member
All very true. I was just trying to highlight a point.
Changing the constitution is never easy. And rightly so too. But I would call 15,000 deaths (average) each and every year slightly more than "minor policy". I can think of many events with far less deaths than this which have resulted in major policy shifts.
You're happy for policy changes on many other matters - like being scanned and irradiated at airports.......But if there's a gun involved, it ranges from indifference "Nothing to see here, move right along, there is nothing we can do to prevent these sorts of things" to the downright belligerent "Don't you DARE do anything to remove our rights".
That's the sort of comment which is why outsiders are more than a trifle perplexed about some US policy matters. Anyway, your country, your choice. I remain perplexed. Thank you for going some way to edifying us outsiders though.
Let me just say that gun control in Australia wasn't popular either. Do I think it goes too far? Yes, I do. But you can't argue with the results (compared with the current results in the US) and not feel somewhat perplexed.
Last edited:
Three things, Adam. First, you seem to have misread one of my comments. I wasn't saying firearm deaths were a "minor policy issue." I was saying that it is difficult enough to get bipartisan agreement on minor policy issues due to the partisanship in Washington, and darn near impossible on something as major and contentious as gun control. And honestly, this is just for standard legislation, which can be passed with a bare majority. Amending the Constitution, which requires a 2/3 vote in both houses, is simply not going to happen in general, and certainly not in the current environment.
Second, you speak like the U.S. is of one mind in all of this. We are bitterly divided on this and a whole host of other issues. These divisions make it difficult for either side to accomplish much on their own and hampers the ability to compromise or find common ground. This situation results in legislative gridlock, so nothing gets done. This makes it look like we don't care, when in fact we do. But our leaders just can't work together to find common ground on any of the major issues we face.
By the way, the idea you mention of "don't do anything to take away our rights" (which you refer to as belligerent) is actually a cornerstone of American culture. We view the rights enshrined in our Constitution as the only thing keeping us from slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship (like, for example, Turkey with Erdogan) and we rightly view the chipping away of any of those rights as a precursor to the end of our democracy. This is even more so with the right to bear arms, since history has shown that one of the first steps of authoritarian governments is to disarm its citizenry.
Finally, my comment "but you don't see us too concerned about it" was meant as sarcasm toward my own government. Many of us are absolutely angry and frustrated that we haven't been able to move to a system of Universal health care, and many of us are frustrated that we can't manage to enact some reasonable firearms regulation. But there is an inertia to a democratic government and the money and corruption in our government make it impossible to make any real changes, or even to examine the issues in a reasonable fact-based manner. Heck, a large segment of our country are "flat-earthers" when it comes to climate change, ignoring the overwhelming evidence staring them in the face.
Second, you speak like the U.S. is of one mind in all of this. We are bitterly divided on this and a whole host of other issues. These divisions make it difficult for either side to accomplish much on their own and hampers the ability to compromise or find common ground. This situation results in legislative gridlock, so nothing gets done. This makes it look like we don't care, when in fact we do. But our leaders just can't work together to find common ground on any of the major issues we face.
By the way, the idea you mention of "don't do anything to take away our rights" (which you refer to as belligerent) is actually a cornerstone of American culture. We view the rights enshrined in our Constitution as the only thing keeping us from slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship (like, for example, Turkey with Erdogan) and we rightly view the chipping away of any of those rights as a precursor to the end of our democracy. This is even more so with the right to bear arms, since history has shown that one of the first steps of authoritarian governments is to disarm its citizenry.
Finally, my comment "but you don't see us too concerned about it" was meant as sarcasm toward my own government. Many of us are absolutely angry and frustrated that we haven't been able to move to a system of Universal health care, and many of us are frustrated that we can't manage to enact some reasonable firearms regulation. But there is an inertia to a democratic government and the money and corruption in our government make it impossible to make any real changes, or even to examine the issues in a reasonable fact-based manner. Heck, a large segment of our country are "flat-earthers" when it comes to climate change, ignoring the overwhelming evidence staring them in the face.
Dave, my understanding is that he had multiple rifles equipped with bump stocks and did use at least one of them when firing into the crowd.
amey01
Well-known member
Thanks Rich - good clarification. And sorry for the misunderstanding on "minor policy issue".
This is a whole lot of WTF.
If you shoot a weapon and kill someone, you are responsible. Suggesting that just because you couldn't see through the glass that it is not your responsibility is total BS.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...w-who-fired/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.74259d4f16a5
If you shoot a weapon and kill someone, you are responsible. Suggesting that just because you couldn't see through the glass that it is not your responsibility is total BS.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...w-who-fired/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.74259d4f16a5
I couldn't agree more Mark. I understand not charging them with Manslaughter or any Premeditated charge but they do have some responsibility here.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
I'm glad to see Washington respond in their usual manner.
How many incidents like this will it take before anyone takes on the NRA in any manner?
From a twisted perspective, I wonder if Congressional officials were killed at the "baseball practice shooting" would have been the tipping point.
How many incidents like this will it take before anyone takes on the NRA in any manner?
From a twisted perspective, I wonder if Congressional officials were killed at the "baseball practice shooting" would have been the tipping point.
amey01
Well-known member
From an even more twisted perspective, I would have thought 20 little children gunned down while they are at school would have been the tipping point. That’s why the rest of the world just sits and watches aghast.
We are screwed up in so many ways I can't count. From stupidity within the Gov't and Armed Forces (Air Force in particular with the latest massacre in Texas) to a ********* in Alabama. It's makes me sick to my stomach.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Dave,
Had the opportunity to install my tuner so I could get the NPR station in New Mexico to listen to the "Morning Edition" and "All Things Considered" news broadcasts. I have done this for decades.
Given the current state of affairs, I decided to leave my tuner in the box. Gotta watch that blood pressure and my personal mental well-being. I've chosen to ignore versus being informed. And sad to say I can no longer empathize and feel much compassion for the folks that are victims of this gun insanity because nothing is going to change so why waste the mental energy. I've become desensitized to this abhorrent state of politics. What a dismal state of dysfunctionality and lack of "collective" willingness to address real problems that exist in this country.
Hope you are well my friend.
Best,
Gordon
Had the opportunity to install my tuner so I could get the NPR station in New Mexico to listen to the "Morning Edition" and "All Things Considered" news broadcasts. I have done this for decades.
Given the current state of affairs, I decided to leave my tuner in the box. Gotta watch that blood pressure and my personal mental well-being. I've chosen to ignore versus being informed. And sad to say I can no longer empathize and feel much compassion for the folks that are victims of this gun insanity because nothing is going to change so why waste the mental energy. I've become desensitized to this abhorrent state of politics. What a dismal state of dysfunctionality and lack of "collective" willingness to address real problems that exist in this country.
Hope you are well my friend.
Best,
Gordon
Hey now, don’t sell Roy Moore short. He’s more than just a *********. He’s a grandstanding zealot who uses fire and brimstone and fake piety to manipulate the ignorant evangelical rubes that populate this great state. I’m sure he had his hand on a bible when he took his oath of office and promised to uphold the Constitution as State Supreme Court Justice (and then was removed from office twice for violating said oath). But the ignorant rednecks and brainwashed evangelicals will still vote for him because he wears a cowboy hat and hates gays and Muslims. Besides, Joseph was a ********* and he gave us Jesus. So how bad can Roy be, anyway? /s
Geez, I really hate my home State. You might think we had progressed beyond the likes of George Wallace. You would be wrong.
I'm sorry to have gotten you 'riled up' Rich !
It’s ok, Dave. It’s not your fault. I just never thought we could sink lower than Jeff Sessions as a Senator. I was so wrong.
:banghead:
