Bi-wire?

[Audio14]

I just own a pair of the Motion 40s along with the Marantz SR7007. I'm expecting to unpack everything this week. I will be doing stereo for the moment.

My questions are: should I bi-wire the speakers? If that's the case, What will be the proper way of doing so? Your suggestions, comments are welcomed.... Thanks in advance

 

[roberto]

Hola. Some members like bi-wired and others do not. I believe in it. There are many cable manufactures that offer this option. To my ears, and one of the best for the money is DHLabs. (www.silversonic.com). It all depends on your budget and your ears. You can borrow from selected cable dealers, a good cable, so you can be sure of your puchase and cable liking. Happy listening.

 

[beanbag]

My questions are: should I bi-wire the speakers?

No, unless your speaker wires were insultingly thin in the first place.

 

[Audio14]

I purchased the the AudioQuest Rocket 33 thus far regarding speaker wires for now. I thought that most likely in the future when I add more speakers, I'll be able to bi-wire them.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[malcesine]

don't waste your money on bi-wire - there is no technical or audible improvement

bi-amping - well that's a different story !

OOOps, didn't mean to cause upset....
I should add....In my opinion and in my experience as a both a listener and electrical engineer the above is correct in a standard home HIFI

 

[InterMechanico]

don't waste your money on bi-wire - there is no technical or audible improvement

bi-amping - well that's a different story !

You may be correct, and to be clear, I don't Bi-Wire my Vistas. However, I think it is possible that some people find there is an audible difference between that and a single pair of wires. I imagine that people get worked up over this, and other subject matter like this, because of statements like the one above, which imply that anyone who has gone that route (Bi-Wire) is too stupid to know that they've wasted their money. I know there are more than a few people in this community who Bi-Wire their speakers, and they're not stupid by any measure. If you haven't been able to detect an audible improvement, fine. Say So. Say "I haven't ever ever ever detected an audible difference between..." Nothing is absolute, and believe me, I understand electricity better than most.

PS: I'm not trying to be mean, and this isn't really directed at you, Malcesine, just those type of absolute "I'm Right, You're Wrong" statements. I don't know everything, or even a fraction of everything, but I always maintain an open mind. Not because I'm afraid of being wrong, which I do so well , but because I don't want to miss out on a good opportunity. There are many ways to cook a steak, make an omelette and even more ways to enjoy music. As Tim Roth would say, when prompted to do so by S.L. Jackson: " Be Cool, Honey Bunny"

 

[Bernard]

Great post, Julian. We've seen a lot of absolute posts here of late.

 

[InterMechanico]

Great post, Julian. We've seen a lot of absolute posts here of late.

Yeah, we absolutely have...
Thank you, Bernard.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Julian,

Agree with you 100%.

Accept the fact that there are a wide diversity of opinions and none of them are wrong.

GG

 

[User211]

Use thick multi-strand copper for the bass and solid core copper for the panel for older MLs without powered woofers - it need not be expensive. Then swap them round and tell me you don't hear a difference. Cos I did, LOL. Solid core on the panel seemed appreciably better to me.

 

[MiTT]

Use thick multi-strand copper for the bass and solid core copper for the panel for older MLs without powered woofers - it need not be expensive. Then swap them round and tell me you don't hear a difference. Cos I did, LOL. Solid core on the panel seemed appreciably better to me.

I agree Justin. Back when I had my ReQuests there was a pretty obvious benefit to bi-wiring, at least to my ears, but others who heard my system agreed, especially if I swapped back in the jumper plates instead of cable. Obviously not an issue with my CLS's.

 

[beanbag]

What is this Relativism? LOL

There are opinions, and then there are opinions backed up by facts, and then there are opinions that don't hold up under ABX testing, and then there are opinions that simply function to stimulate the economy.

PS: an open mind is a skeptical and inquiring one, not an accepting one.

 

[Rich]

It seems to me that the ones who trot out ABX testing as the be-all end-all of determining whether you can hear a difference between components (usually with an air of disdainful superiority) always seem to have the most basic and cheap systems. Almost like they feel they have to justify their inability to afford nicer equipment by insisting it couldn't possibly make a difference in sound. I wonder if some of them have ever even heard a properly set up high end system or have the ability to know how it should sound.

ABX testing has its place. It also has some pretty severe limitations for judging sonic quality of components. An open mind is understanding that you don't know near as much as you think you do, and that there are people with 30 or more years in this hobby with experience with all kinds of equipment that might just have more of a clue than you think. Sorry, but I take a little umbrage at being "schooled" in the superiority of ABX testing by someone whose entire system cost less than my speakers.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Rich,

Beanbag appears, for all intent and purpose, to be a "numbers" kinda guy when choosing his stuff. Although myself, you and others would disagree with this approach, he has an attitude shared by many.

What is sad, IMHO, is this approach inherently limits those individuals in their choices (and subsequent performance of their system) and that they apparently can't accept the validity of other people's disparate points of view. Given the inherent subjectivity of this hobby, seems as if that's an untenable position in the long scheme of things.

Gordon

 

[beanbag]

Dunno why you would think that way. The "numbers people" spend their money and effort on things that make a measurable difference, like room treatments, active electronics for driver phase alignment, impulse correction software, the list goes on. We fix problems you didn't even know you had. For love of music, of course. (LOL)

As for different points of view: I will CONSIDER (but not necessarily accept) another point of view if they can provide a technical reason for doing so. This is the kind of fair and open-minded person that I am, LOL.

 

[InterMechanico]

What if they lack the knowledge needed to satisfy your burden of proof? The only opinions that carry weight with you (beanbag) are those of sound or electrical engineers? I guess you're on safe ground there; most people who just love music won't go to any serious lengths to convince you. You will understand if they just don't care that much.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dunno why you would think that way. The "numbers people" spend their money and effort on things that make a measurable difference, like room treatments, active electronics for driver phase alignment, impulse correction software, the list goes on. We fix problems you didn't even know you had. For love of music, of course. (LOL)

As for different points of view: I will CONSIDER (but not necessarily accept) another point of view if they can provide a technical reason for doing so. This is the kind of fair and open-minded person that I am, LOL.

OK bean, one last attempt at playing nice.

"Fair and open minded person?" Who are you talking about?

"We (I assume that includes you) fix problems you (I assume that means me) didn't even know you had."

On behalf of other forum members, my sincere gratitude and appreciation for all the problems you have solved.

I, for one, am very tired of your passive aggressive, condescending remarks. If you want to contribute, in a positive way, to this forum, I strongly suggest you change your attitude. You seem to want and encourage conflict, not meaningful dialogue. Please CONSIDER that.

GG

PS: I hope you get it and chill out.

 

[beanbag]

Gordon,

I think you are unnecessarily getting mad over whatever, and is the one that needs to chill out.
There is nothing "passive aggressive". I just say what is true. You're the one taking umbrage.

Do you know your room's frequency and impulse response? Your driver phase alignment? If you don't, then you should just take my statement literally. I work on these problems. You don't know about them. Right? If you're trying to draw any meaning out of it, then that is your own doing.

 

[InterMechanico]

Gordon,

I think you are unnecessarily getting mad over whatever, and is the one that needs to chill out.
There is nothing "passive aggressive". I just say what is true. You're the one taking umbrage.

Do you know your room's frequency and impulse response? Your driver phase alignment? If you don't, then you should just take my statement literally. I work on these problems. You don't know about them. Right? If you're trying to draw any meaning out of it, then that is your own doing.

I'm curious what it is that you do for a living? How have you come by all your knowledge?

 

[Gordon Gray]

bean,

You fit the classic "measurements prove all" types and the way they typically respond with these types of exchanges. They exist on every audio website. And yes, it is classic passive aggressive.

As I said on the "speaker cable" thread, this discussion is as old as dirt.

I have no intention of debating you and engaging in the "dog chasing the tail" type exchange.

Of course you are correct and there is no need for further discussion.

Gordon

PS: You may want to check out the "What's Best Forum" and search for posts by Ethan Winer and Rich Davis. I suspect that they are your audio soul mates. And you may also want to read responses to their posts.

In the end, life is too short to engage in unresolvable, circuitous discussions.

And yes, I haven't done any of those tests that you recommend. Needless to say, I trust my ears based on some 35 years of experience in this hobby.

And if your can provide phase alignment / impulse response on my MBL 116's, that would be most appreciated. All I can tell you is that I am very happy with my current systems' performance.

Isn't that what it's all about?