BalancedForce...

[Mobs]

Hello everyone,

I am thinking of replacing my dual Depth i's with a single BlancedForce 212. I moved to a new home and my Depth's just arent giving me the slam they used to this larger room. My Expression 13 A's sound wonderful, but need some extra bass.

This model has been around for a while...

Has anyone heard if ML has a new model in the works? I ask because the Dynamo's were recently upgraded.

Is there another sub that I should be auditioning along with the 212?

Thanks in advance...

 

[JonFo]

Hum, that sounds more like placement and potentially room mode challenges in the new room. Two subs are usually better than one if correctly placed and tuned.

Also, 'slam' typically refers to mid-bass in the range of 50 to 120Hz, and that area is definitely impacted by many things.

Have you run ARC on the 13A's?

I see from your system page (which I updated the title to reflect your current gear), you run a processor, have you re-run Audyssey for the new setup? As noted in my setup guide, a misplaced mic location or two can lead to poor results. So you might want to try another calibration run.

Based on the locations of the subs in your system thread, those are not the ideal places for subs, looks pretty, but one of the least effective places.
With two subs one middle front, one middle back of the room are best, but often that does not work, so 1/4 front and 1/3 side can be made to work More info in this article.

Last bit of unsolicited advice: please add absorption behind that Stage X, I can hear the comb-filtering from here

 

[GW1800]

Mobs - My son originally had a 210 with his 13's about a year ago which he moved it to an upstairs system and got a single 212 to replace it. I can't over emphasize how much moving up from a single 210 to a single 212 made an impact - it was HUGE. I never saw the two side by side except in pictures but when they were sitting next to each other the 212 dwarfs the 210. What does that got to do with you? Your two Depth i's might output somewhere in between a single 210 and 212. But the big difference will be the PBK effect that you will now be able to do once you get a 212. Sub placement is critical but like most rooms you just don't have a lot of choices and you need to settle. That is where the PBK or the newer ARC that was just recently released helps a ton. Like Jon says two are better then one but in my son's case he just does not have room it sounds like you do so I would consider doing that if possible. Back to the sound with the 13's the sub just adds that bit of bottom that frankly the 13's had missing in our opinion. I think you will be very happy. On the other had from what I know the 210/212 are up for a update probably for the Munich show next year if I had to guess. Not quite sure what they are thinking of doing as they are just great subs. Maybe continue on with a phone app etc. like the lower models but just wonder what they have in store to improve? I'm sure they will as they always seem to do.

 

[rower30]

BF212 - do it yourself!

Mobs - My son originally had a 210 with his 13's about a year ago which he moved it to an upstairs system and got a single 212 to replace it. I can't over emphasize how much moving up from a single 210 to a single 212 made an impact - it was HUGE. I never saw the two side by side except in pictures but when they were sitting next to each other the 212 dwarfs the 210. What does that got to do with you? Your two Depth i's might output somewhere in between a single 210 and 212. But the big difference will be the PBK effect that you will now be able to do once you get a 212. Sub placement is critical but like most rooms you just don't have a lot of choices and you need to settle. That is where the PBK or the newer ARC that was just recently released helps a ton. Like Jon says two are better then one but in my son's case he just does not have room it sounds like you do so I would consider doing that if possible. Back to the sound with the 13's the sub just adds that bit of bottom that frankly the 13's had missing in our opinion. I think you will be very happy. On the other had from what I know the 210/212 are up for a update probably for the Munich show next year if I had to guess. Not quite sure what they are thinking of doing as they are just great subs. Maybe continue on with a phone app etc. like the lower models but just wonder what they have in store to improve? I'm sure they will as they always seem to do.

---------------------------


I use two BF212 with my CLX. What was interesting is that I set-up the subs with the perfect bass kit initially and grew unhappy with the result. The bass was too disconnected with the mains. It just thudded away all too often.

I turned OFF the USB loaded "optimized" cross-over frequency and also turned off the DSP. I set the phase to zero, initially and SLOWLY turned up the cross-over point until I could not hear a difference and backed it off 5 Hz. I was at 60 Hz when the subs no longer played "up". I set the phase by sticking my head between the sub and CLX and simply turned to phase for maximum output. No, not exactly where I'm seated but OK. The VOLUME was set to more or less be an average of my source material. CD's have too much bass and records have far less. I don't like constantly messing with the volume so I set it to a moderate average.

The differences doing it manual over DSP ate no making DSP look very good. My frequency "hole" from the sub to the mains is gone. Impact is WAY up and bass tonality is far better. Apparently, the cross-over point sounds correct now and seems to be the biggest thing. At 55 Hz stuff is far and away better. I do not hear bass frequency anomalies at all...but my room is 39 feet long so it is pretty smooth for bass compared to shorter rooms.

I'd turn OFF the downloaded cross-over point and experiment with that setting AND, turn OFF DSP once you find the best cross-over point by ear. I'm just saying that a manual set-up is SO MUCH better than what the DSP provides with the factory cross-over point. So no, I won't ever go back to the DSP / factory settings. Bass has to play "up" into the mains to capture the proper upper harmonics to the bass fundamentals to sound right. The factory DSP / cross-over didn't do this and made the bass sound way too separated from the mains. Now, it is simply divine.

You can always just turn the cross-over and DSP ON again in a second if you don't like your manual experiment but I'd sure try. The key sees to be the proper upper cross-over frequency. In a small room the DSP may be an advantage to remove a bad room node so some may cycle that that ON verses OFF, and just turn OFF the factory slope and set your own by ear.