A very bad purchasing experience

Let's see, since acquiring the MLs in 12/07 i purchased a Sunfire, a Lexicon, a Marantz SACD, and even a Panamax online with very fine results. And then the Depth arrived - with very bad results. The unit arrived with all four post that attach the outer ring to the magnet on one of the speakers detached.

This happened in August and I am still upset. I actually had one of these little beauties in my home only to see it in agony and to loose it. I was so excited about finally getting a Depth; it was horrible to see it so damaged.

The unit was purchase on eBay. It was from a dealer and i asked enough questions to feel confident. It may have arrived damaged because of the ridiculous packaging, which i won't describe because you may think i am exaggerating, or the unit may have already been damaged.

Upon attempting to contact the seller, i learned that he had been suspended from eBay. To make a long story short, after a very agonizing and stressful period, my funds were recovered via a PayPal claim.

So, I want to share some experience and points based on this transaction.

A)The seller's location is that of an actual ML authorized dealer but selling under a different company name, which i learned only after speaking to ML support and after returning the sub.

B)DO NOT TRUST PAYPAL to recover funds - use a credit card!! PayPal always directs you to use your bank account - DO NOT USE CASH in any eBay transaction.

C)Any insurance purchased via a carrier goes to the seller not the buyer.

D)PayPal requires that the buyer be responsible for the cost of the return, which can be substantial when your package weighs in at 73 pounds!

E)Take pictures of the box before you open it, while you are opening it, and after to include the packing material - completely document anything you receive that is of value.

F)Copy the description from the website to include pictures and any correspondence before your purchase - DOCUMENT

G)A tip for returns - have the carrier reclaim the package based on the insurance claim. If they take possession they are responsible for the return or payout of the insurance funds. (Insurance was not paid in this case based on the poor quality of the packing).

H)Martin Logan has OUTSTANDING COUSTOMER SUPPORT. You heard it before, and it is true.

I tend to be very careful and thought that this purchase was reliable but was fooled by a shady ebayer - not sure who to trust now and am very concerned about receiving heavy items.

Some discrepancies in the description and what was received (if your interested):
1)Stated to be about 14 months old but the serial number indicated it to be manufactured in 06, 2) picture showed the original tag on the unit but was not there when arrived (why would a dealer remove it?), 3) stated that the spikes were not included but were when the unit arrived, and 4) stated that it will be very well packed but came in a very used and deteriorating box with random pieces of soft and hard foam (not nearly enough) and mostly sheets of paper (believe it or not). WHAT SORT OF DEALER DOES THIS?!!? Answer - one who got removed from eBay, or one who maybe wanted to get rid of a damaged unit.

I've been away even from this group because i was so bummed about this whole incident. I feel a little better now. Thank you for listening.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal, but glad it worked out in the end. Definitely GREAT advice... you should make this a sticky thread.

Great tips for buying online. I've bought and sold quite a few audio pieces through Audiogon and have never been burned. Sure, I have had one or two incidents but the seller was honest and made it right. Maybe I've been lucky and of course some risk involved when buying online. But it is also possible to get burned when buying from a local dealer.

In fact, the only time I have been burned buying audio gear was from one of my local dealers in Tampa. I will not do business with them again. They even have a very nice Classe SSP-600 pre-pro on sale now that I would love to buy but I refuse to give them my business until they make it right. There are other dealers in my local area I trust much more.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Tom. That is one of the reasons why I never use ebay. I'm sure there are some scammers on Audiogon too, but not nearly as many as on ebay.

Hi Tom,
what kind of reputation status did the ebay seller have??

that is the FIRST thing I look at when purchasing anything on ebay.

Can anybody say palletized ? that is the only way to ship heavy items or just drive to the location and and pick it up. another option for people who are bizzy is a private courier service these guys are sometimes very reasonable and will hand deliver an item.

TomDac said:

Hi Tom,
what kind of reputation status did the ebay seller have??

that is the FIRST thing I look at when purchasing anything on ebay.

Click to expand...

I should have mentioned that; it was 95.5. I reviewed the comments and found that the negatives had to do with not selling a won item and slow delivery. Nothing that i was concerned about.

While i am back on the subject there are a few other items i should have mentioned.

1)If a problem arises, it is always best to resolve it directly with the seller. If you cannot you can initiate a dispute. If a resolution still cannot be reached it can be escalated to a claim. The purpose of a claim is to obtain a refund. However, even in a claim situation you can still come to an agreement and resolve the issue. If an agreement is reached, both parties must write to PayPal describing the terms. This creates a record independently submitted by both parties so it is verifiable. PayPal will then release funds from the locked account accordingly.

2)You have a set number of days to return the item. If you return it past this limit the claim is void.

3)If you are negotiating a resolution with the seller do not let the seller delay the process whereby the claim terminates. Also, do not drop the claim on the premise that the seller needs access to the account to pay for the repair. Once the claim is removed it cannot be reinstated. If the seller will not present an agreed to resolution to PayPal, it is likely that they will not honor any terms.

4)Once a claim terminates for any reason it cannot be reinstated for any reason.

5)A claim is not automatically accepted. PayPal will decide if your reasons are valid. They will then rule in favor of the buyer or seller. Their decision is binding.

6)Your funds may not be refunded, or partially refunded, even if PayPal decides in your favor. It depends on if the funds are available in the account. A buyer may remove the funds before a claim is initiated and PayPal will not pay out what is not in the account.

7)If you initiate a claim with your credit card, the PayPal claim is void. It is best to inform the credit card of the situation, obtain their claim forms and have them ready just in case there is a problem with the PayPal claim. Credit cards also have time limits but i believe they are longer than PayPal's.

I mostly blame myself because i broke my rule of not purchasing such items on eBay. However, under the circumstance it felt reliable. Obviously it was not. This caught me by surprise and now i can only hope that this experience will help to inform others. If someone out there can add to this, please chime in.

There was a mention of creating a "sticky thread." I am not sure if that is appropriate for this forum and leave that to the powers-that-be to decide if it is wanted. If so, i will be glad to refine this post and include any other contributions from the seller or buyer experience. I am not sure how to make a "sticky" so i need to be pointed in the right direction.

I think that Administrator or Moderators can create stickys. This is a good article with tips on what to look for and what one can or should do when buying from an online classified ad of any sort.

We often get questions on this topic and so this would be good to have this as a sticky to point people to. It adds to the knowledge bank of this forum.

Thanks,
Craig

One comment -- I purchased a descent thru ebay.... ended up coming in slightly damaged because of shipping... The front grill was very slightly 'doinked' ... but, my only point is - I think shipping a sub is perilous.... My Descents came in perfect condition - in perfect boxes from a dealer.

I had to made a claim with Paypal last summer for the first time. I bought a $400+ item that was not what the seller advertised. Once I informed the seller of the situation, she appeared to vanish from the face of the earth. The Paypal folks were most helpful, covered the return shipping, and paid me back in full for the purchase. My experience, at least, was quite positive.