HsvToolFool
Well-known member
Latest updates begin here: BAT cd player and Summits
1. Member Name: Brian the Tool Fool
(collects antique woodworking tools and has
a pathetic crush on Nicole Kidman)
2. Location: Huntsville, Alabama
3. ML Models: Summit, Theatre-i, SL3
4. Year Purchased: Summit (2007), Theatre-I (2005), SL3 (1996)
5. Mods/Changes: Replaced original SL3 feet with "ETC" spikes.
6. Associated Electronics:
7. Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience:
I've always loved music, but my audio equipment addiction began in college with a humble pair of $130 Infinity bookshelf speakers and a Pioneer receiver. I listened to Pink Floyd while doing my calculus homework. After earning my degree and entering the white-collar workplace in 1992, I dove into the newfangled home theater hobby. I saved my pennies for a few months and bought a Denon laserdisc player, Denon receiver, and a set of Klipsch HT speakers with a matching subwoofer. It was fun, but it was horrible for jazz and classical music which are my first loves.
I subscribed to Home Theater magazine back then. They published a fascinating article in late 1994. One of my favorite audio reviewers at the time, Corey Greenberg (formerly of Stereophile), had a then-crazy idea to use high-end audio speakers in a HT setup (oh, how far poor Corey has fallen. These were the most bizarre speakers I had ever seen and their names were even stranger: "SL3", "Stylos", and "Logos". But the reviewers were extremely enthusiastic about the result. One reviewer had worked on the movie "Apocalypse Now" in some capacity related to audio, so they used that laserdisc as a test. The quote I recall was that he had never heard such accurate reproduction of the human voice.
Naturally, I had to hear this for myself. So I drove to the nearest MartinLogan dealer two hours away. The dealer had no SL3s in stock (which were just being released) but he had a used pair of Sequel IIs. Needless to say, I was knocked flat in that audition. Unfortunately, this (now defunct) dealer spotted me as a high-end newbie and tried to sell his well-used Sequel II demos for the full SL3 retail price. I just said no thanks and privately decided to never do business with such a rat.
So I started scrimping and saving (I do a lot of this) and a couple year later bought my brand new SL3s. This speaker is still the best bargain in high-end audio, especially since you can often get a used pair in excellent condition.
Initially, I used my Denon receiver and Denon Laserdisc player to drive the SL3s. It sounded great compared to those little Klipsh speakers, but I knew that I needed a complimentary amp, cables, and front-end to make these speakers sing.
So another year of saving passed until I finally had my second high-end component: a used McKormick DNA-1. Wow! I had bass slam and much better dynamics. At the same time, I decided it was proper to upgrade from 12-gauge lamp chord to entry-level Audioquest cables.
By this time I was a regular loiterer at the new hi-fi dealer in my town. He carried three brands: MatinLogan, Krell, and Transparent. The main demo system he had was incredible: Monoliths, all top-end Krell sources, and all top-end Transparent cable and interconnects. Listening in the sweet spot in that huge, acoustic-treated room was surreal.
Of course, I couldn't even begin to dream about buying such expensive gear, but I learned to keep my eye open for used gear and trade-ins. As far as I'm concerned, it's undeniable that Krell amps and Transparent cables are a perfect compliment tor MartinLogan ESLs regardless of the music source. But in all honesty, the main reason I have this gear in my system is that I was able to buy used from people I could trust.
Saving for another year and a used (but only months-old) Krell HTS was added to replace poor Denon reciver. The excellent DACs in the HTS were a huge improvement to the bass and soundstage. At this time, I also was able to buy a demo pair of Transparent Super Bi-wire which was an awesome compliment to the HTS and DNA-1. I could now play the system much louder for hours with absolutely no listening fatigue.
At the time, I lived in a 900 square foot apartment. Being a hormonal young male, I obviously needed a Velodyne HGS-18 subwoofer to reach down past 20 Hz at 110 db. This took another year of saving.
Another year, more saving, and offering my DNA-1 in trade finally gave me enough to buy a used (but practically new) Krell FPB 300cx.
The Theatre-i and Krell KAV-250a3 were next. The Theatre-i was new from the new local ML dealer (the other guy ran away from creditors). The KAV-250a3 was a real bargain bought new from a Krell dealer on the web who was liquidating discontinued models. Together, they make an awesome home theater experience. I HATE going to the local cinemas now. I'd much rather just wait for the DVD to be released and get better image and sound.
I was perfectly happy with my Transparent Super Bi-wire for several years. Then a good friend upgraded his Transparent Reference XL (insanely expensive!) to the new Reference MM (insanely-er expensive-er!). He offered to sell his XL cables to me at a really great price, but this was still much more money than I ever wanted to pay for stupid speaker cables. Still, I was curious if I could hear a difference, so my buddy let me borrow the cables for a few weeks.
Well, that was a big mistake.
Switching from Transparent Super Bi-Wire (an excellent cable) to Reference XL was initially disappointing. Sure, the bass was improved and I heard more detail and depth. But it just didn't knock my socks off. The soundstage wasn't amazingly larger or deeper like what happens in audio reviews when they do A/B comparisons. So after a week's listening with the Reference XL in place, I decided it just wasn't worth the money and switched back to the Super Bi-Wire.
When I switched back, I was listening to a favorite jazz piano disk (Jacques Loussier Plays Bach Telarc CD-83411). I hadn't used much piano in my A/B comparisons until this point. But when I first heard the piano through my old cables, I thought a connection was loose. The piano was flat and almost muffled. It didn't sound like a grand piano in a real space, more like a synthesizer. The cable connections were fine. After more listening, I was finally able to put my finger on what was so different: I could not hear and feel the strings vibrating inside the piano. The tones were the same, but that detail and energy of a real piano was gone.
I spent the next week switching back and forth between Super and Reference XL while listening to my live-space recordings. I heard the same real/synthesized contrast in all my favorite jazz and classical disks. In the end, I had to admit that I really, really liked what the Reference XL did for my system. I spent another week wrestling with my frugal-Scotsman ancestry before I bought those cables from my friend.
The next-largest surprise from the Reference XL upgrade was the affect on my subwoofer. All my cable auditioning was in stereo mode, so my Velodyne HGS-18 was turned off. Once I decided to buy the cables, I started playing DVDs and laserdiscs again. The HGS-18 has always been a top-notch, near-invisible subwoofer but you sometimes felt the lowest notes coming from that black box in the corner. With the Reference XL cables installed, the sub totally disappeared. When that explosion hits, it feels like it's coming from between the SL3s. The cleaner and more solid bass from my SL3s caused the HGS-18 to integrate much better.
The 50-inch Panasonic plasma has been in place for about a year. I bought it from an AVSForum advertiser call VisualApex. Awesome experience! Nice people, stayed in touch, delivered quickly to my door as scheduled with no damage, and about half the cost as BestBuy and Tweeters. When the 65-inch 1080p plasmas come down enough, the 50-inch will go to the bedroom and I'll order from them again.
What's next? A better audio source, of course. I'm using an el-cheapo upscaling DVD player which feeds awesome HDMI to my plasma, but is not the best digital transport. But I'm not giving up a terrible amount of audio performance so I'm not in a hurry. I'm waiting for BluRay player prices to become more reasonable, then I'll get a high-end source.
After that? Summit! Or the promised CLX. I like the idea of the Summits because it allows me to go sub-wooferless and saves floor space. But the CLX may deliver more of what I really love: that ESL detail and imaging magic. We'll see how it goes this Fall.
And then? Krell's new Evolution 707 preamp/processor has exciting specs. But it will be quite a while before these appear on the used market. I can't see spending $10K on a preamp/processor, especially since Krell's HT gear is always rough around the edges. Krell provides excellent sound, but the user-interface usually has annoying glitches which are never fixed.
1. Member Name: Brian the Tool Fool
(collects antique woodworking tools and has
a pathetic crush on Nicole Kidman)
2. Location: Huntsville, Alabama
3. ML Models: Summit, Theatre-i, SL3
4. Year Purchased: Summit (2007), Theatre-I (2005), SL3 (1996)
5. Mods/Changes: Replaced original SL3 feet with "ETC" spikes.
6. Associated Electronics:
- Velodyne HGS-18 subwoofer
- Krell FPB 300c
- Krell Home Theater Standard (first model, never upgraded)
- Krell KAV-250a3 center and rear amp
- 8 ft. Transparent Reference XL SS speaker cables
- Four 40 ft. XLR microphone cables (balanced) interconnects
- Two 35 ft. HDMI cables
- Sony BDP-300 BlueRay player
- Radio Shack HDTV tuner (over-the-air only)
7. Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience:
I've always loved music, but my audio equipment addiction began in college with a humble pair of $130 Infinity bookshelf speakers and a Pioneer receiver. I listened to Pink Floyd while doing my calculus homework. After earning my degree and entering the white-collar workplace in 1992, I dove into the newfangled home theater hobby. I saved my pennies for a few months and bought a Denon laserdisc player, Denon receiver, and a set of Klipsch HT speakers with a matching subwoofer. It was fun, but it was horrible for jazz and classical music which are my first loves.
I subscribed to Home Theater magazine back then. They published a fascinating article in late 1994. One of my favorite audio reviewers at the time, Corey Greenberg (formerly of Stereophile), had a then-crazy idea to use high-end audio speakers in a HT setup (oh, how far poor Corey has fallen. These were the most bizarre speakers I had ever seen and their names were even stranger: "SL3", "Stylos", and "Logos". But the reviewers were extremely enthusiastic about the result. One reviewer had worked on the movie "Apocalypse Now" in some capacity related to audio, so they used that laserdisc as a test. The quote I recall was that he had never heard such accurate reproduction of the human voice.
Naturally, I had to hear this for myself. So I drove to the nearest MartinLogan dealer two hours away. The dealer had no SL3s in stock (which were just being released) but he had a used pair of Sequel IIs. Needless to say, I was knocked flat in that audition. Unfortunately, this (now defunct) dealer spotted me as a high-end newbie and tried to sell his well-used Sequel II demos for the full SL3 retail price. I just said no thanks and privately decided to never do business with such a rat.
So I started scrimping and saving (I do a lot of this) and a couple year later bought my brand new SL3s. This speaker is still the best bargain in high-end audio, especially since you can often get a used pair in excellent condition.
Initially, I used my Denon receiver and Denon Laserdisc player to drive the SL3s. It sounded great compared to those little Klipsh speakers, but I knew that I needed a complimentary amp, cables, and front-end to make these speakers sing.
So another year of saving passed until I finally had my second high-end component: a used McKormick DNA-1. Wow! I had bass slam and much better dynamics. At the same time, I decided it was proper to upgrade from 12-gauge lamp chord to entry-level Audioquest cables.
By this time I was a regular loiterer at the new hi-fi dealer in my town. He carried three brands: MatinLogan, Krell, and Transparent. The main demo system he had was incredible: Monoliths, all top-end Krell sources, and all top-end Transparent cable and interconnects. Listening in the sweet spot in that huge, acoustic-treated room was surreal.
Of course, I couldn't even begin to dream about buying such expensive gear, but I learned to keep my eye open for used gear and trade-ins. As far as I'm concerned, it's undeniable that Krell amps and Transparent cables are a perfect compliment tor MartinLogan ESLs regardless of the music source. But in all honesty, the main reason I have this gear in my system is that I was able to buy used from people I could trust.
Saving for another year and a used (but only months-old) Krell HTS was added to replace poor Denon reciver. The excellent DACs in the HTS were a huge improvement to the bass and soundstage. At this time, I also was able to buy a demo pair of Transparent Super Bi-wire which was an awesome compliment to the HTS and DNA-1. I could now play the system much louder for hours with absolutely no listening fatigue.
At the time, I lived in a 900 square foot apartment. Being a hormonal young male, I obviously needed a Velodyne HGS-18 subwoofer to reach down past 20 Hz at 110 db. This took another year of saving.
Another year, more saving, and offering my DNA-1 in trade finally gave me enough to buy a used (but practically new) Krell FPB 300cx.
The Theatre-i and Krell KAV-250a3 were next. The Theatre-i was new from the new local ML dealer (the other guy ran away from creditors). The KAV-250a3 was a real bargain bought new from a Krell dealer on the web who was liquidating discontinued models. Together, they make an awesome home theater experience. I HATE going to the local cinemas now. I'd much rather just wait for the DVD to be released and get better image and sound.
I was perfectly happy with my Transparent Super Bi-wire for several years. Then a good friend upgraded his Transparent Reference XL (insanely expensive!) to the new Reference MM (insanely-er expensive-er!). He offered to sell his XL cables to me at a really great price, but this was still much more money than I ever wanted to pay for stupid speaker cables. Still, I was curious if I could hear a difference, so my buddy let me borrow the cables for a few weeks.
Well, that was a big mistake.
Switching from Transparent Super Bi-Wire (an excellent cable) to Reference XL was initially disappointing. Sure, the bass was improved and I heard more detail and depth. But it just didn't knock my socks off. The soundstage wasn't amazingly larger or deeper like what happens in audio reviews when they do A/B comparisons. So after a week's listening with the Reference XL in place, I decided it just wasn't worth the money and switched back to the Super Bi-Wire.
When I switched back, I was listening to a favorite jazz piano disk (Jacques Loussier Plays Bach Telarc CD-83411). I hadn't used much piano in my A/B comparisons until this point. But when I first heard the piano through my old cables, I thought a connection was loose. The piano was flat and almost muffled. It didn't sound like a grand piano in a real space, more like a synthesizer. The cable connections were fine. After more listening, I was finally able to put my finger on what was so different: I could not hear and feel the strings vibrating inside the piano. The tones were the same, but that detail and energy of a real piano was gone.
I spent the next week switching back and forth between Super and Reference XL while listening to my live-space recordings. I heard the same real/synthesized contrast in all my favorite jazz and classical disks. In the end, I had to admit that I really, really liked what the Reference XL did for my system. I spent another week wrestling with my frugal-Scotsman ancestry before I bought those cables from my friend.
The next-largest surprise from the Reference XL upgrade was the affect on my subwoofer. All my cable auditioning was in stereo mode, so my Velodyne HGS-18 was turned off. Once I decided to buy the cables, I started playing DVDs and laserdiscs again. The HGS-18 has always been a top-notch, near-invisible subwoofer but you sometimes felt the lowest notes coming from that black box in the corner. With the Reference XL cables installed, the sub totally disappeared. When that explosion hits, it feels like it's coming from between the SL3s. The cleaner and more solid bass from my SL3s caused the HGS-18 to integrate much better.
The 50-inch Panasonic plasma has been in place for about a year. I bought it from an AVSForum advertiser call VisualApex. Awesome experience! Nice people, stayed in touch, delivered quickly to my door as scheduled with no damage, and about half the cost as BestBuy and Tweeters. When the 65-inch 1080p plasmas come down enough, the 50-inch will go to the bedroom and I'll order from them again.
What's next? A better audio source, of course. I'm using an el-cheapo upscaling DVD player which feeds awesome HDMI to my plasma, but is not the best digital transport. But I'm not giving up a terrible amount of audio performance so I'm not in a hurry. I'm waiting for BluRay player prices to become more reasonable, then I'll get a high-end source.
After that? Summit! Or the promised CLX. I like the idea of the Summits because it allows me to go sub-wooferless and saves floor space. But the CLX may deliver more of what I really love: that ESL detail and imaging magic. We'll see how it goes this Fall.
And then? Krell's new Evolution 707 preamp/processor has exciting specs. But it will be quite a while before these appear on the used market. I can't see spending $10K on a preamp/processor, especially since Krell's HT gear is always rough around the edges. Krell provides excellent sound, but the user-interface usually has annoying glitches which are never fixed.
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